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Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 22, 2005 11:40 pm
by preach
Does anyone think that we vegetarians can come off as arrogant sometimes?

Posted: Feb 23, 2005 12:06 am
by AndyBa
Any man can come off as arrogant sometimes.
Do you mean by being vegetarian?

Posted: Feb 27, 2005 9:10 am
by preach
I mean vegetarians who look down on others because they eat meat. I am speaking of vegetarians who consider the lifestyle an elitist society. I am speaking of vegetarians who have no tact when dealing with individuals who choose to eat meat.

Posted: Feb 27, 2005 12:40 pm
by bojster
Meat eaters suck. And so do (though considerably less) vegetarians. Go vegan! :P

Posted: Mar 2, 2005 1:05 pm
by DollyDimples
I know i feel extremely sef concious when an omni asks me the question "so, why are you vegan?" (when it's someone who's blatantly not interested, or they are waiting to pick apart my reasons) ..
I say my piece & wait for the ==> :roll:

xDDx

:smurfin:

Posted: Mar 6, 2005 6:05 pm
by Dodic
bojster wrote:Meat eaters suck. And so do (though considerably less) vegetarians. Go vegan! :P

Khm... suck what?


I say my piece & wait for the ==>

:)
And do they usaully give you the ==> :roll: ?

Posted: Mar 6, 2005 10:47 pm
by bojster
Dodic wrote:suck what?

Create vacuum.

e_e

Posted: Mar 18, 2005 10:06 pm
by dalaithellama
bojster wrote:Meat eaters suck. And so do (though considerably less) vegetarians. Go vegan! :P


People like you piss me off. If it weren't for that sort of attitude among vegetarians/vegans, omnivores probably wouldn't be so judgemental about us. The judgements obviously go both ways, and it isn't completely on the omnivores' shoulders.

Just a thought. Live and let live.

Posted: Mar 19, 2005 12:07 am
by bojster
I pee on thee.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 19, 2005 11:29 pm
by dragonfly
preach wrote:Does anyone think that we vegetarians can come off as arrogant sometimes?
No. We are attempting to restructure our lives, to meet the needs of a more compassionate lifestyle.

edit: bad english

Posted: Mar 19, 2005 11:30 pm
by dragonfly
bojster wrote:I pee on thee.
i agree.

Posted: Apr 24, 2005 12:43 pm
by Leonor
Yes. And violent too, sometimes, which is worse. Admiring tigers and dispising humans will never make sense to me.

Posted: May 7, 2005 2:56 am
by Tuffenoughtorock
I think tolerance is the #1 thing. How is the world going to get better if we keep hating eachother? Vegans shouldn't despise vegetarians because, at least, we are all trying to make a difference. No, meat-eaters aren't contributing to their health or the well-being of animals, but we should still tolerate them without hate.

Posted: Aug 24, 2005 2:12 pm
by AndyBa
Tuffenoughtorock wrote:I think tolerance is the #1 thing. How is the world going to get better if we keep hating eachother? Vegans shouldn't despise vegetarians because, at least, we are all trying to make a difference. No, meat-eaters aren't contributing to their health or the well-being of animals, but we should still tolerate them without hate.


I have to disagree.
1) Tolerance isn't and shouldn't be the #1 thing because it will turn to indifference.

2)Generaly speaking - "Meat-eaters" do contribute to health and well-being of animals. For examples wolves are meat eaters and they hunt, usually weak and sick animals which results in a stronger and healthier herd.

vegan attitudes?

Posted: Dec 29, 2005 9:34 pm
by njvegan
not at all. i've never really observed any vegetarian or vegan putting on airs (e.g. club mentality) when speaking with non-vegetarians/vegans. why so?

a previous post refered to our lifestyle as an "elite". well, sure speaking probabilistically we may do well in the long-run health-wise, however you can not outsmart/outrun genetic pre-dispositions to disease.

Posted: Mar 17, 2006 6:59 am
by WarChild
preach wrote:I am speaking of vegetarians who consider the lifestyle an elitist society.

Those aren't vegetarians, those are snobs :)

It's all about compassion

Posted: Sep 30, 2006 2:59 am
by Vegan Grandma
I think that the vegan life is all about compassion-for human and non-human animals. I think that we all do the best we can given our view of the world at the time. Most of us were not always vegan. We need to show understanding.

Vegan Grandma

Posted: Oct 2, 2006 11:31 am
by AndyBa
I totally agree with Vegan Grandma.

Re: It's all about compassion

Posted: Oct 3, 2006 6:59 am
by WarChild
Vegan Grandma wrote:I think that the vegan life is all about compassion-for human and non-human animals.


What do you mean by "human animals"? :)

Posted: Feb 13, 2007 9:22 pm
by Backwood
What do you mean by "human animals"?

I think she meant humans. We are animals aren't we? :)

And regarding the topic. I haven't yet met arrogant vegans. May be they become arrogant in a hot dispute?

Posted: Feb 13, 2007 9:37 pm
by BigBecka
I've occasionally come accross people who think that vegetarians and vegans are arrogant and selfish - this is usually because they do not know much about vegetarianism themselves. For example, chefs and caterers who have only been trained to prepare meat dishes (and, in some cases, consider vegetarian food to be beneath them!) or who don't run rigorously clean kitchens or cook from scratch - so it embarrasses them when you ask if there's any dairy in the food :)

I once lived with someone who wouldn't eat off cutlery or crockery that had been used to eat meat with, even if it was clean! She was a lovely, caring person, and quite genuinely just did not like the idea of meat having been on her crockery. But other people always thought she was very unreasonable and arrogant - she would rarely eat out socially, and went spare if someone borrowed a fork or something! I guess we're all different...

Posted: Feb 13, 2007 10:05 pm
by AndyBa
She was a lovely, caring person, and quite genuinely just did not like the idea of meat having been on her crockery.

She was? what happened to her?
Actually I'm like this :tongue2: I mean lovely and caring
:D kidding.. I have this thing, I don't like to see flesh on crockery at my home, and in my fridge. There have never been, I know it's a stupid thing in a way, but I just don't like it. That is what my girlfriend couldn't understand. She was seeing it as paranoia, and she saw me eating from plates at my friend's house which isn't veg. She thought it's not fair toward her. So eventually we separated.
And the truth is that I just wanted deep inside for her to become a veg sooner. Didn't work - patience is a virtue after all.

Posted: Feb 13, 2007 11:08 pm
by BigBecka
She was? what happened to her?
She married a zoologist who believed eating meat was justified because animals have a different nervous system :lol: I wonder what mealtimes at their house is like... :violent1:

Yeah, I feel a bit :tongue2: I got bad hormones again... :D I can cope with meat having been on my crockery, so long as it's been cleaned. I know what you mean about the fridge though - my fridge always seems to smell of sausages :( I've bleached it and put lemons in there.... Sorry to hear about the girlfriend - that must have been hard. I'm lucky to be surrounded by some relatively understanding people!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 27, 2010 4:28 am
by meign
BigBecka wrote:
She was? what happened to her?
She married a zoologist who believed eating meat was justified because animals have a different nervous system :lol: I wonder what mealtimes at their house is like... :violent1:


Is this a true story? I also wonder...

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 30, 2010 12:49 pm
by RandyK
Carnivores are arrogant. Most of them have absolutely no compassion or empathy if you are medically required to eat vegan (which is my case).

They care not a whit that you can't sit with them and have a bacon cheeseburger. They think a salad and crackers is all you need. Beans? The only beans they ever eat are canned, which explains why they hate beans.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 30, 2010 3:38 pm
by snog
Well, I often find carnivores to feel theatened by vegan/ vegetarianism. However, many are, indeed, quite tolerant. For myself, I truly don't care if some one is a carnivore. Each to their own. I also refuse to be a vegan evangelist. What I do find very annoying is when vegans and vegetarians are 'facist', if you will. I have come across total intolerance on the behalf of vegans, most especially. I am thinking of a band bbs I used to frequent, and have left because of this and other reasons. I have a friend who has been a long time vegan, and like me, he has zero tolerance for people who are... Intolerant, lol. :alien:

Re: It's all about compassion

Posted: Sep 30, 2010 3:41 pm
by snog
Vegan Grandma wrote:I think that the vegan life is all about compassion-for human and non-human animals. I think that we all do the best we can given our view of the world at the time. Most of us were not always vegan. We need to show understanding.

Vegan Grandma



Indeed. Wise words, grandma!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 1, 2010 2:44 pm
by wude
preach wrote:Does anyone think that we vegetarians can come off as arrogant sometimes?


. :iroc:

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 3, 2010 12:33 pm
by RandyK
wude wrote:
preach wrote:Does anyone think that we vegetarians can come off as arrogant sometimes?




Yes.

Not eating animals, does not automatically entitle someone to force their opinions on others; especially if the info, that he/she is espousing, is baseless and not properly researched.


And yet carnivores seem to do exactly that all the time. If they aren't extolling the virtues of eating animal flesh, it's usually because they're too busy sticking their noses in the air, regarding vegan food choice.

You're so smug. We vegans have to tolerate the most ignorant, non-empathetic, non-accommodating restaurants and eating companions on a daily basis. "Force their opinions?" Yes, indeed, we will do so because of your ignorance and intolerance.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 3, 2010 5:31 pm
by wude
:cherry: :bom:

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 4, 2010 1:14 am
by meign
Is it arrogant to convince others of a healthy eating?

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 4, 2010 2:41 pm
by wude
:withstupid: :knob:

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 8, 2010 10:12 pm
by AndyBa
I have to agree and disagree with wude. :)
I agree that there are indeed many vegans and vegetarians that would benefit from researching some nutritional facts more in depth. I have met many vegetarians that think stuff like - "eggplant has a lot of proteins" only because it is called EGGplant.

Or that think that EVERYTHING natural is less harmful than processed or synthetic which is simply not true.

What I disagree on is that I am never 100% sure about something, and I don't see how one can be. In most of the cases I have to trust some authority, scientists for example that made the research and draw the conclusions. But I can not be 100% sure that the research was accurate and that the conclusion was logical.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Oct 16, 2010 3:18 pm
by lisa3
No, not at all!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Nov 15, 2010 12:42 am
by signlink
Were slave liberators percieved as being "arrogant"?
(Yes they were by some, soe does that make wrong to be the way they were?)

It is the "pawn chip" of the ignorant to draft up calls of "arrogance" or "elitist" upon those who threaten their faulty lifetyle....

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Nov 19, 2010 2:18 am
by meign
All we are after is to share with them a healthy diet... :D

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 16, 2011 8:58 am
by Clenbut
I always believe that the non-vege are much more arrogant then the vegan,because they like to harm people as they do with the animals,they kill a animal just to make there food tasty.I hate the people who are killing the innocent animals for eating them.

Clenbuterol

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 1, 2011 10:59 pm
by ChrisC1977
preach wrote:Does anyone think that we vegetarians can come off as arrogant sometimes?


absolutely! Anyone can. It has nothing to do with ones life style. It has to do with your character.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 2, 2011 1:22 am
by Kimberlily1983
I don't think I come off as arrogant, but I do come across as judgmental of omnis and vegetarians, and that's because I do judge them (with exceptions, like children). I judge people for making choices that result in the confinement, torture, and exploitation of other sentient beings. I don't believe that this is a matter of personal choice, but a moral imperative each of us must meet. There's a right choice, and a wrong choice, and I judge people when they make the wrong choice.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 9, 2011 8:58 pm
by dragonfly
meign wrote:Is it arrogant to convince others of a healthy eating?

no. the short and easy answer is that most people are blinkered, self-centered egocentric idiots/dronomatic malcontents, and don't have the compassion or intelligence to know the difference between right and wrong, and live their entire life in a delusional dream. they don't have a single clue about how the realworld around them really works. most worship the green god and nothing else. quite sad. :toothy2:

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 9, 2011 9:53 pm
by dragonfly
signlink wrote:Were slave liberators percieved as being "arrogant"?
(Yes they were by some, so does that make wrong to be the way they were?)

It is the "pawn chip" of the ignorant to draft up calls of "arrogance" or "elitist" upon those who threaten their faulty lifetyle....
good points. but the only reason veganism is frowned upon is because of the elitist driven, greed and apathy based society/dronomatic throw-away culture that we live in, where success is poorly measured yet is highly valued, even more so than commonsense and ethical behavior.

Re:

Posted: Mar 10, 2011 3:21 am
by jayanixg
bojster wrote:Meat eaters suck. And so do (though considerably less) vegetarians. Go vegan! :P


I think this would be called as Vegetarian Arrogance :lol: Well i just changed into being a vegan. I also eat meat which is made of tofu and veggies. :cheers:






http://www.wholehealth.com

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 11, 2011 3:07 am
by AdamD
Before this discussion becomes any more convoluted with incorrect terminology listen and pay heed.

!!!!!!BASIC WORD DEFINITION TIME!!!!!!

Carnivore: A carnivore , meaning 'meat eater' (Latin carne meaning 'flesh' and vorare meaning 'to devour'), is an organism that derives its energy and nutrient requirements from a diet consisting mainly or exclusively of animal tissue, whether through predation or scavenging.

Herbivore: Any animal that feeds chiefly on grass and other plants.

And here's the big one so listen up...

OMNIVORE: An animal that feeds on both animal and vegetable substances.

So although you 'could' call an omnivore (most people) a carnivore, not only is the term offensive as it has barbaric undertones but it is relatively incorrect seeing as the term omnivore is made for the place you're using carnivore for.

I'm only talking to a few people here by the way most people seem to get it right.

Some of the main reasons a large portion of the public find Vegitarians and/or Vegans arrogant are the following:

Vegan's are an inconvenience to hang out with. It's embarrassing for everyone else who eats with them to watch them make life harder for the chefs/staff in restaurants. It's even worse to have to cook for them yourself, having to make whole different dishes for them is a pain in the bum.

Someone already mentioned this but a lot of the reasoning behind Vegan-ism as a lifestyle choice is shaky to say the least. Without going into a discussion about the reasoning now, when many vegans are questioned about the validity of their claims in person they either become defensive saying things like "I don't have to explain myself to you" while at the same time you have to change what you cook to accommodate them. Worse yet vegans say things like " Your meat eating ways are killing you/ really barbaric" which is an exaggeration and very offensive considering that a person arguing from the position of the societal norm hardly has to justify their actions seeing as they have thousands of years of omnivorous humanity backing them up.

Another possible reason is organizations like PETA ,which often represent vegans, are very aggressive in their tactics. Some people would say that PETA are environmental terrorists and their claims would not be unfounded if you look at some of the corporate sabotage PETA has taken part in, hardly an organization I would want representing my way of life.

All this being said though I bet the vast majority of Vegan people are understanding of everyone else choice and work to make their own choice as un-obtrusive as possible.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 11, 2011 4:27 am
by philosopher
"Vegan's are an inconvenience to hang out with. It's embarrassing for everyone else who eats with them to watch them make life harder for the chefs/staff in restaurants. It's even worse to have to cook for them yourself, having to make whole different dishes for them is a pain in the bum."

Lets get the obvious out of the way first, I would rather suffer some "embarrassment" than be responsible for the torture and gruesome murder of living beings. Also, I have never given staff a hard time in restaurants. There are usually always vegan items on the menu, and I simply order those. If you're clever you can google vegan reviews & menu choices while at/on the way to the restaurant.

The truly sad thing about our culture is that people think that every dish needs to be centered around meat. This way of thinking is so boring and dull. When you're concentrated on 50 ways to eat a chicken you never get to experience seitan, tofu, tempeh,tvp, quinoa, eggplant, and all sorts of other great food.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 11, 2011 1:25 pm
by AdamD
"I would rather suffer some "embarrassment" than be responsible for the torture and gruesome murder of living beings", there you have it, you are fine with inconveniencing chefs etc at normal restaurants; and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It would be naive, however, to pretend that it doesn't embarrass non-vegans that you could be hanging out with (theoretically of course). This brings me back to my main point that vegans are sometimes are an inconvenience to hang out with.

As for variety in food, by it's very nature being a vegan limits what you can eat. An omnivorous normal eater gets to experience all of the vegan food they want if they want on top of the many amazing meat or mixed dishes that are available in the wonderful modern culinary world! Sure most dishes are centered around meat, but this is probably because most people enjoy eating it :D

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 12, 2011 2:52 am
by SeanMadsen
I don't look down on meat eaters, I just can't really stand them if we're talking about being a vegetarian. Everyone always tells me to suck it up and eat meat, but they just don't get it.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 15, 2011 1:06 am
by philosopher
AdamD wrote:"I would rather suffer some "embarrassment" than be responsible for the torture and gruesome murder of living beings", there you have it, you are fine with inconveniencing chefs etc at normal restaurants; and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. It would be naive, however, to pretend that it doesn't embarrass non-vegans that you could be hanging out with (theoretically of course). This brings me back to my main point that vegans are sometimes are an inconvenience to hang out with.

As for variety in food, by it's very nature being a vegan limits what you can eat. An omnivorous normal eater gets to experience all of the vegan food they want if they want on top of the many amazing meat or mixed dishes that are available in the wonderful modern culinary world! Sure most dishes are centered around meat, but this is probably because most people enjoy eating it :D


I don't inconvenience chefs at restaurants. There is always a vegan choice, and I order that. I also don't go to restaurants that refuse to serve vegetarian dishes if I can help it. What about those pesky lactose intolerant people? They inconvenience chefs all the time! It is estimated that some 75% of the global population experience lactose intolerance. You are the minority if you can consume milk products.

Omnivores can experience more of a variety in food, but they don't. They are too busy eating meat. I, personally, eat a much more varied diet than I did when I ate the SAD.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 15, 2011 4:47 pm
by ProteinVegan
I think Vegetarians as a whole just have a different personality. As a vegetarian, I feel that my eating habits contribute to a physical and emotional difference that non-vegetarians. Being physically fit, and active all the time, I feel that people look at me differently.

ProteinVegan

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 15, 2011 6:52 pm
by dragonfly
i only go to vegan restaurants. problem solved.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 17, 2011 10:24 am
by AdamD
So now you need a whole restaurant devoted to you?


Problem not solved.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 17, 2011 7:39 pm
by dragonfly
yes i do *burp*

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Mar 23, 2011 6:01 am
by AdamD
Hence the perceived arrogance due to inconvenience.

/thread

Re: Vegan Arrogance

Posted: Mar 29, 2011 11:52 pm
by dragonfly
your perceptions are faulty. simple logic and commonsense does the trick here. there is no such thing as veggie arrogance, just the mindless childish perception of the fractured souls who are too afraid, too insecure, too brainwashed or too willfully ignorant to acknowledge the hideous, barbaric and sadistic truth behind factory farming and eating the flesh of brutally murdered innocent, sentient non-human animals.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Apr 7, 2011 10:16 am
by Dacite
I believe it can annoy many that there are people who are conscious about their food choices. You know, there are many members in monasteries who are overweight. They have given up many things- relationships, ambitions, living everyday as they want but still the hardest thing is to give up food addiction!
I do feel that people thing of me as arrogant sometimes because they cannot accept that I do not go with a crowd.

Re: Vegan Arrogance

Posted: Apr 7, 2011 4:18 pm
by AdamD
dragonfly wrote:your perceptions are faulty. simple logic and commonsense does the trick here. there is no such thing as veggie arrogance, just the mindless childish perception of the fractured souls who are too afraid, too insecure, too brainwashed or too willfully ignorant to acknowledge the hideous, barbaric and sadistic truth behind factory farming and eating the flesh of brutally murdered innocent, sentient non-human animals.


There's nothing too wrong with exercising your right to chose other than the inconvenience to others, but what this guy here says : "there is no such thing as veggie arrogance, just the mindless childish perception of the fractured souls who are too afraid, too insecure, too brainwashed or too willfully ignorant to acknowledge the hideous, barbaric and sadistic truth behind factory farming and eating the flesh of brutally murdered innocent, sentient non-human animals" sums it up beautifully. Who gave you the right to judge someone just because they don't subscribe to your own fringe view of the treatment of animals? And what gives you the right to call them insecure, brainwashed and willfully ignorant. This is arrogance by the book, I don't think most vegans are anywhere near this bad but as you can see from the above, vegan arrogance definitely exists.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Apr 7, 2011 6:50 pm
by dragonfly

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Apr 10, 2011 6:37 pm
by AdamD
I'm guessing that this means you couldn't formulate a coherent argument.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Apr 13, 2011 9:20 pm
by dragonfly

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Apr 14, 2011 7:25 am
by AdamD
It's funny how when people can't adequately respond to intellectual challenges the fall back on repetitive mantras.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: May 21, 2011 6:15 pm
by clearwood
I'm not arrogant... but I do feel morally superior to eaters of dead meat!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: May 24, 2011 11:12 am
by Dacite
clearwood wrote:I'm not arrogant... but I do feel morally superior to eaters of dead meat!


That is fact and reality that people who do not eat sentient beings are morally superior because in their brain there is functioning such qualities as empathy, compassion and common sense.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: May 25, 2011 6:25 pm
by AdamD
The justification of your claim that " That is fact and reality that people who do not eat sentient beings are morally superior because in their brain there is functioning such qualities as empathy, compassion and common sense." is flawed in the context because.

A: Normal people do not eat sentient beings, we eat non-sentient animals.

B: Assuming that you just chucked sentient in there for funzies, normal people also have the qualities of empathy, compassion and common sense. They simply have it in a different way than you do.

Average go omnivores are very empathetic and compassionate people, and although I know this is a generalization seeing as omnivores make up the huge majority of the human race, it is more truthful than your claim that because we eat meat we do not have empathy or compassion.

As for common sense, as I see it there is an available, socially acceptable and nutritious source of food available in the form of animal meat so it seems like common sense for me to eat it. Especially considering that the last few thousands of humans ate it as well and they seemed to do ok getting us to where we are today. If it worked for them why shouldn't it work for me? It's just plain common sense :)

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jul 5, 2011 7:48 pm
by vegangurl03
some yes. some no. but for those that do come off that way, they have a good reason to!!!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jul 5, 2011 7:48 pm
by vegangurl03
Dacite wrote:
clearwood wrote:I'm not arrogant... but I do feel morally superior to eaters of dead meat!


That is fact and reality that people who do not eat sentient beings are morally superior because in their brain there is functioning such qualities as empathy, compassion and common sense.


I AGREE!!!!!!!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Aug 12, 2011 4:40 am
by AdamD
Your argument here dictates that eating creatures who can feel and experience the world around them means that a person lacks the qualities of empathy, compassion and common sense. This is an enormous generalisation against your fellow human beings and only serves to illustrate the extent that vegetarians and vegans can be arrogant to.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 2, 2011 11:12 pm
by Apocalyptica
There are always going to be arrogant people, regardless of what group they belong to. So of course there will be arrogant vegans who preach to thier friends, and arrogant meat eaters who join vegan forums in order to start arguments and tell others how superior their viewpoint is. It is interesting that we would call vegans elitist because they challenge the elitist worldview that human beings are superior to such an extent that we should be free to use animals for any purpose we desire, regardless of whether that use provides a needed benefit for us. I wouldn't say that most meat eaters lack compassion or empathy though; many of them are not aware of the unnecessary suffering that goes into their consumption habits, and if they are aware they are simply protecting their own ego and/or their circle of compassion does not extend to non-human animals. If they are not compassionate to animals then I do view them differently and feel that our personalities are not compatable, but that is not because I'm a vegan; I've been that way my whole life. I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks it funny or okay to abuse an animal.

And the only reason omnis would not like being around me is because of the knowledge that I'm a vegan - this has happened to me often, where people judge me as soon as they hear I'm a vegan, and go on the offense wanting to pick a fight with me. I don't inconvenience anyone - I bring my own food to other peoples houses when necessary, and my questions for a waiter in a restaurant are limited to 'is there any cheese in the bruschetta', or something like that. I never ask that the chef make me a special meal, and have never known another vegan to do that either.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 5, 2011 12:52 pm
by WingedAndToothless
It's possible.

I honestly feel that Vegetarianism or Veganism are more evolved states of awareness that most human beings are incapable of.

Abiding solely on your educated awareness and compassion for other living things, knowledge of where animal-products are doing to this earth, etc - it shows a lot of thought and dedication to making the right decisions and I honestly feel that those are excellent traits that more people in the world should have.

Eating meat in MOST cases is simply for pleasure, because of a sense of entitlement and very rarely for health reasons(That chemical-laden chunk of frankenstein mystery meat is really giving your body everything you need? cmon). But I understand some people do have genuine medical needs for animal products as well.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 8, 2011 7:36 am
by newschoolofcooking
No i don't think that vegetarians are arrogant just because they are vegetarians but i have seen some people who show arrogance because they are non vegetarians. I don't think there is any reason of boasting on the fact that we are vegetarians or non vegetarians,But We should always praise those who are converting themselves into vegetarians.Thanks

Re: e_e

Posted: Sep 11, 2011 8:44 pm
by ants
dalaithellama wrote:
bojster wrote:Meat eaters suck. And so do (though considerably less) vegetarians. Go vegan! :P


People like you piss me off. If it weren't for that sort of attitude among vegetarians/vegans, omnivores probably wouldn't be so judgemental about us. The judgements obviously go both ways, and it isn't completely on the omnivores' shoulders.

Just a thought. Live and let live.


So true.

It's also strange when vegans/vegetarians feel the need to "one up" and look down on each other. For instance when a vegan gets all superior about what they don't eat to someone who they know is a vegetarian that eats dairy but not eggs, or something. It's all pathetic no matter who does it to whom.
I guess it just goes to show we can't all be vegan/vegetarian and enlightened as well. The reason these people have for feeling superior to one another is unsubstantiated, their egos are so large they live in a world of delusion. Oh well :D
Who decides what is right? Who decides what is wrong? We do, for ourselves. Ultimately we will never know if our decision is correct particularly for others. There is no reward for getting it right either. So what's the point in competing or having something to prove? Probably insecurity.

No matter what we eat, we all have it.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 20, 2011 3:20 am
by AdamD
Apocalyptica wrote:There are always going to be arrogant people, regardless of what group they belong to. So of course there will be arrogant vegans who preach to thier friends, and arrogant meat eaters who join vegan forums in order to start arguments and tell others how superior their viewpoint is.


My argument, although not explicily stated, was that there is correlation and perhaps some causation between whether or not someone is a vegan and whether or not someone is arrogant. Saying that there are arrogant people everwhere is a cop out, you're right of course, but I thought it was obvious that I was saying that vegans are more arrogant as a group than the norm.

As for your thinly guised barb about "meat eaters" (which by the way is an inadequate way of describing a regular humans diet) having the gall to join your forum and get this!: Disagree with you on some matters; there is nothing arrogant about disagreeing with someone if you justify your position properly. What is arrogant is presuming that someone starting an argument with you is somehow taboo.

Apocalyptica wrote: It is interesting that we would call vegans elitist because they challenge the elitist worldview that human beings are superior to such an extent that we should be free to use animals for any purpose we desire, regardless of whether that use provides a needed benefit for us.


The current worldview is not that we are "free to use animals for any purpose we desire", that's why there is such a thing as animal rights. On top of that, although the current worldview pertaining to non human animals may be elitist, but at least it is justified.



Apocalyptica wrote: I wouldn't say that most meat eaters lack compassion or empathy though; many of them are not aware of the unnecessary suffering that goes into their consumption habits,


So if ignorance on the issue means you keep your status as a compassionate being, would you consider educating them a cruel thing to do because essentially you are condemning them to either subscribe to a different way of life or to forever be labelled incompassionate.

Apocalyptica wrote: and if they are aware they are simply protecting their own ego and/or their circle of compassion does not extend to non-human animals.


How is taking advantage of an efficient, societally acceptable, naturally eaten and damned tasty form of food protecting ones ego? For normal people animals still recieve some compassion but we are realistic in saying that animals shouldn't recieve the same amount of compassion that human animals do and as a result of this gobbling them up is ok.

Apocalyptica wrote: If they are not compassionate to animals then I do view them differently and feel that our personalities are not compatable, but that is not because I'm a vegan; I've been that way my whole life. I don't want to be friends with someone who thinks it funny or okay to abuse an animal.


So, because of your lifestyle choice you are intentionally excluding yourself from accepting other people for who they are? Right.
I don't think the vast majority of normal eaters "think it funny or okay to abuse and animal", killing and eating an animal is not animal abuse (when done properly under industry standards), and I doubt anyone but psychos think animals being eaten is "funny".

Apocalyptica wrote:And the only reason omnis would not like being around me is because of the knowledge that I'm a vegan - this has happened to me often, where people judge me as soon as they hear I'm a vegan, and go on the offense wanting to pick a fight with me.


Although this is purely anecdotal so holds little weight in this discussion, it doesn't seem to match up with what you said above. Earlier you "view them differently and feel that our personalities are not compatable" referring to normal eaters, perhaps your outright bias against them is influencing the situation a bit here.

Apocalyptica wrote: I don't inconvenience anyone - I bring my own food to other peoples houses when necessary,


Bringing your own food is considered rude in most Western countries as the implication is that you don't feel that the hosts food is satisfactory. Regardless of whether or not you mean it that way (and you do, you think their food is morally wrong) it does give off that feeling, that sounds like inconvinience to me.

Apocalyptica wrote: and my questions for a waiter in a restaurant are limited to 'is there any cheese in the bruschetta', or something like that. I never ask that the chef make me a special meal, and have never known another vegan to do that either.


What if there is cheese in the bruschetta? Do you ask the chef to make a meal different than usual specially for you or do you sit there and take up a seat that another proper paying customer could be in? More inconvinience.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Sep 20, 2011 3:31 am
by AdamD
WingedAndToothless wrote:It's possible.

I honestly feel that Vegetarianism or Veganism are more evolved states of awareness that most human beings are incapable of.


I find this statement quite funny because it is meat allowed us to literally evolve to where we are now. As for whether or not veganism is a more enlightened state of mind, I disagree and the fact taht you would claim this only further reinstates my fears that vegans are generally more arrogant than non vegans.

WingedAndToothless wrote:Abiding solely on your educated awareness and compassion for other living things, knowledge of where animal-products are doing to this earth, etc - it shows a lot of thought and dedication to making the right decisions and I honestly feel that those are excellent traits that more people in the world should have.


Not exploiting a natural resource which provides food in an age where food is in desperate need does not show thought or descision making capacity.

WingedAndToothless wrote:Eating meat in MOST cases is simply for pleasure, because of a sense of entitlement and very rarely for health reasons(That chemical-laden chunk of frankenstein mystery meat is really giving your body everything you need? cmon). But I understand some people do have genuine medical needs for animal products as well.


Yes, eating food is often for pleasure. Who are you to take away that pleasure from people because you value animals more than a normal person? As for a "sense of entitlement", why do you feel you are entitled to eat plant life? Sure it's not as sentient as animal life but on a similar not, animal life is not as sentient as human life. Probably because plants aren't as cute and cuddly right?

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Nov 23, 2011 11:24 am
by Taylory
Hello


MY observation just about the vegetarians who look down on others because they eat meat. I am speaking of vegetarians who consider the lifestyle an elitist society. I am speaking of vegetarians who have no tact when dealing with individuals who choose to eat meat.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Dec 8, 2011 2:45 pm
by veganpizzaplace
A lot of times the arrogance is part of a convert's zeal. I know I certainly had it when I was "converted" over 20 years ago.

That zeal of others was important to help me become vegetarian, and then vegan, and maybe my own subsequent zeal also helped to convert others.

but I am also sure that the same zeal put off many people as well. Over time, my zeal wore off, but not my commitment, which I will explain unashamedly when asked, without trying to be hectoring.

As an aside, the vegetarian Brahmins of India do actually see themselves as an elite, because they have eschewed one part of the cycle of birth and death, i.e. eating flesh. And there is a certain Californian, wealthy vegetarian subculture that is also very elitist. So the two perspectives are by no means incompatible.

I think we should accept that we think our choices to be superior, because we would not stick with them otherwise, would we. But as you rightly point out, the arrogance is the problem.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 3, 2012 7:17 pm
by PixieKat
Some meat eaters are arrogant. Some vegans are arrogant too. I've had both criticize me (the carnivore was when I became vegan, the vegan was when I was still vegetarian). It happens.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 3, 2012 7:20 pm
by PixieKat
Also, as far as I'm concerned, I couldn't care less what my family & friends eat. It's none of my business. I won't preach or lecture.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 6, 2012 5:35 pm
by SmeepRocket
The only vegans I have met that were arrogant were straight-edge, and somewhat young. I don't doubt there are plenty of arrogant vegans, however, because I have met many arrogant omnivores. I doubt the trait is less abundant in herbivores.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 6, 2012 9:16 pm
by snog
SmeepRocket wrote:The only vegans I have met that were arrogant were straight-edge, and somewhat young. I don't doubt there are plenty of arrogant vegans, however, because I have met many arrogant omnivores. I doubt the trait is less abundant in herbivores.


Agreed. For anyone to pontificate about why an individual should eat a certain way is damned annoying, not to mention, just boring.

But I admit to finding it highly irritating when most people ask me' where do you get your protein?' even in this day and age. As well, I resent it when people say that being vegan makes it hard on others who invite you to meals at their homes. How hard can it be for them to serve food which is vegan, such as salad, potatoes, or even the humble peanut butter and jelly sandwich? It's NOT rocket science. However, I WILL eat dairy if people serve it to me. It's no big deal. BUT I REFUSE TO EAT ANY KIND OF FLESH. If that means I go hungry, oh well...

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 7, 2012 3:06 pm
by SmeepRocket
snog wrote: However, I WILL eat dairy if people serve it to me. It's no big deal. BUT I REFUSE TO EAT ANY KIND OF FLESH. If that means I go hungry, oh well...


Hehe, that's known as Freegan. Eating animal products when other people are paying, specifically.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 8, 2012 1:32 pm
by snog
^But the primary reason I eat dairy at others' homes is because I want to be less of a 'pain' to my hosts. And, truth be told, I will eat some dairy on occasion at home, too. Oprah coined a term, 'veganist', to denote a person, who while eating a primarily plant based diet, will consume dairy and eggs on occasion. That's me.

Sorry that I'm not a purist.* rolls eyes*

Lol, as for being freegan, I've been down that road many times. I've rescued perfectly good food from the trash on countless occasions, especially when I cleaned offices. A friend and I also found a bag of bagels in a doorway to an apt block in NYC. And, sadly, many victims of famine in the 3rd world rifle through garbage dumps to be able to eat.

To return to the original thrust of this thread: arrogance and intolerance is arrogance and intolerance regardless of its source. My dictum: each to their own. If a carnivore wants to lean more about vegetarianism and veganism, they're served best if one approaches them in a non judgmental manner.

'clearwood wrote:
I'm not arrogant... but I do feel morally superior to eaters of dead meat!'

It's the above attitude that alienates many people, including myself. I mean, where the fuck do you get off? Talk about being sanctimonious!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 8, 2012 6:48 pm
by SmeepRocket
Er, I was being serious, I was hardly mocking you. That is called Freegan.

However, there's a little bit of veal in every glass of dairy. The dairy industry is just as bad as the meat industry, so if you are doing it for ethical reasons, your logic is faulty.

I really can't stand Oprah for those kinds of things.

If you eat dairy, you are not just not a purist, you are not a vegan. That's perfectly okay. But you confuse others by calling yourself a vegan, the way that people who eat chicken and say they are vegetarian confuse others. It does damage to the cause because it is misinformation, though your diet may be more morally acceptable than a meat eater.

Honestly, if your hosts can't handle your dietary choices, which are done for strong ethical reasons, then just don't eat any food. I went to a friend's for New Years, and a vegan friend of mine that is vegan for health reasons ate the meat there, but I just didn't eat. Actually, I can't drink, so I didn't drink any alcohol. Sometimes, you just have to abstain. I don't see why that is so hard. If you've been starving for three days because you are poor, and someone offers you a hamburger, by all means, eat it. It's really a matter of circumstance, and each situation is different.

Oh, and bagels are vegan. Thank goodness for that.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 8, 2012 7:29 pm
by petcrusader
Anyone can be arrogant. However, there are those vegetarians and vegans that do walk around with an "attitude", and can be quite obnoxious when speaking to those that aren't. Although I'm vegetarian, and make sure a large proportion of my meals are vegan, I have been on the other end of these obnoxious people, and it gets my back up. They aren't willing to hear anyone else's "side", nor acknowledge anyone else's opinion. Imagine how well that works out when speaking to meat eaters. How many will listen to them once they get an earful of attitude. But like I said at the beginning of this post, anyone can be arrogant.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 28, 2012 6:15 pm
by snog
Agreed about the faulty logic. And, whilst eating primarily vegan meals and snax, I'm not a vegan, I agree.

It's akin to people thinking vegetarians eat fish and chicken. Ive given up telling folks that a 'real' vegetarian doesn't eat flesh.


Alas, I do have a hard time being totally vegan all the time.

But, I'm not gonna beat myself up over it. And I will enjoy that football icecream cake that friends and I will enjoy in a couple weeks! Though we could care less about football.

In a perfect world, I'd be happy to be vegan all the time. I enjoy the soy icecream ive had. But many niche market products cost the earth and my being on an income of less than 10,000 usd yearly, those items are a luxury. (I also love the meat analogues I eat, such as tofu pups, etc.)
Would that all food would be sourced from plants, I'd be happy.

Yeah, freegan-ing is good. Ive had many a great food find! One time, years ago, at a regional fair, some one threw out a platter of tempura. I recede it from atop the pile of food in a trash can. Saved myself a lot of $$, as those can be pricy!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 28, 2012 6:23 pm
by snog
I meant 'rescued', not receded. My iPad will intuit what it thinks I want to write, and if I'm not careful, I miss mistakes. I can't correct the bottom paragraph as I can't scroll down that far.

Oh, yes, and I also wish death to any critter such as mice that get into my apt. ( I hadn't had any in many years, but recently had seen one in my livingroom. suffice it to say, i dont go in there anymore and kind friends moved my love seat and tv table into my bedroom. Ive stuffed under the livingroom door, which ive closed and locked, with rags).I hate and fear them greatly! They reproduce big time, too. So, I have no 'soft' feelings for these horrid things. They cause much damage and have been known to carry disease. Also, the knots they leave everywhere is so unhealthy. I'd read a ton of comments on a blog about mouse infestations and one college kid reported that a mouse got into his bed and bit him. How chilling!!! He had to get a tetanus shot and a course of antibiotics. Mice can also cause fires, too, as they'll nibble electric wiring inside walls.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Jan 28, 2012 6:30 pm
by snog
petcrusader wrote:Anyone can be arrogant. However, there are those vegetarians and vegans that do walk around with an "attitude", and can be quite obnoxious when speaking to those that aren't. Although I'm vegetarian, and make sure a large proportion of my meals are vegan, I have been on the other end of these obnoxious people, and it gets my back up. They aren't willing to hear anyone else's "side", nor acknowledge anyone else's opinion. Imagine how well that works out when speaking to meat eaters. How many will listen to them once they get an earful of attitude. But like I said at the beginning of this post, anyone can be arrogant.


Well put! People who behave like this I call 'vegan facists'!

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 3, 2012 8:03 pm
by dragonfly

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 3, 2012 8:11 pm
by dragonfly
snog wrote:Oh, yes, and I also wish death to any critter such as mice that get into my apt. ( I hadn't had any in many years, but recently had seen one in my livingroom. suffice it to say, i dont go in there anymore and kind friends moved my love seat and tv table into my bedroom. Ive stuffed under the livingroom door, which ive closed and locked, with rags).I hate and fear them greatly! They reproduce big time, too. So, I have no 'soft' feelings for these horrid things. They cause much damage and have been known to carry disease. Also, the knots they leave everywhere is so unhealthy. I'd read a ton of comments on a blog about mouse infestations and one college kid reported that a mouse got into his bed and bit him. How chilling!!! He had to get a tetanus shot and a course of antibiotics. Mice can also cause fires, too, as they'll nibble electric wiring inside walls.
geeze. that's plain vanilla subservient speciesist rhetoric and obtuse doublethink. it is never all-right to kill an innocent non-human animal.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 5, 2012 3:40 pm
by snog
^ eh? Talk about rhetoric: your response was chock full of the same. All that sloganeering gets old and screams 'lunatic fringe' to boot. Man, you come off as a major whack job. Speaking like that to people will hardly convince them to become vegan.
To your point about 'speciesism: yes, it does make me a hypocrite to be sure, but most of us are thus from time to time. I'm sorry if I don't want my apt overrun with mice. You're welcome to them. Feel free to come and capture them, honey, and take them home.

'I really can't stand Oprah for those kinds of things'.
I dunno, I think she makes abundant sence, really. I think it's a great term for a person who eats a primarily vegan diet, but who does make some exceptions. We all do what we can. Some people can go 'whole hog' ( pun not intended, lol!!) and others perhaps are '80%-ers, like myself. Making any effort at all helps. Sure beats eating the whole hog( pun INTENDED).

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 5, 2012 11:01 pm
by dragonfly
snog wrote:^ eh? Talk about rhetoric: your response was chock full of the same. All that sloganeering gets old and screams 'lunatic fringe' to boot. Man, you come off as a major whack job. Speaking like that to people will hardly convince them to become vegan.
To your point about 'speciesism: yes, it does make me a hypocrite to be sure, but most of us are thus from time to time. I'm sorry if I don't want my apt overrun with mice. You're welcome to them. Feel free to come and capture them, honey, and take them home.
and snog you come off as a "sour grapesian" bootlick, it doesn't surprise me you are only able to mount an incredibly shallow and insensible ad hominem strawmen attack to make your rather naive point. i can has some realworld critical thinking skillz, your DUMBYist "canned" rhetoric is truly an eyesore. as far as convincing people to go vegan, i'll take my chances with the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3htxKowj5Hk

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:56 pm
by dragonfly

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 23, 2012 12:42 pm
by alexandermller82
A tomato grown in a hothouse has half the vitamin C content as a vine-ripened tomato.

Re: Vegetarian Arrogance

Posted: Feb 23, 2012 12:44 pm
by alexandermller82
I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings.