Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

General health discussions for vegans. Discuss tips, tricks and methods on how to maintain Good Health and Physical Fitness while being vegan. Discuss Exercises, slimming diets and much more.
aoas
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Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 21, 2010 1:02 am

What kind of message is being sent out here?
One saying that firstly, having slim legs=good. Many people disagree and to send out this prescription is something I'd expect to see from the likes of peta (in fact that's a message they do send out).

But it is beyond belief that veganism is being advertised as a life style where you lose weight automatically. Veganism=/=weight loss/being skinny.

It is stupid messages like these that drive me up the wall, where body image is being linked to veganism. I put weight on when I turned vegan, I know others who also did, I know those who didn't have a weight change, those who lost weight.

Meat eating diets can be extraordinarily varied from person to person, and the same is true of vegetarianism and veganism, so I want direct answers (and if you agree with me but are answering those questions, fair enough):

Why is being skinny being sexy (which is one of the messages being sent out in this image)? Why is it insinuated that having legs like that are the only erotic legs out there? Is it to say people should turn vegan? Hardly the greatest reason in the world.

Why is being vegan being linked to being skinny?

Will the image be edited so that the writing isn't on there? Or even taken down, because any vegan with a sense of reality and intelligence knows that that is not something that should be promoted, it is based on ideas that simply aren't true of the real world.

Thank you for your time and help, and I'm sorry if anyone is offended by this post, but I'm fairly angry.

aoas
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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 21, 2010 1:05 am

ww. vegtalk. org /promotion/ slim_erotic_legs. jpg
This was the image, as it's my first post I couldn't put it on. Add the 'w' in and take the spaces out.

aoas
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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 21, 2010 4:58 am

You know what, I looked at it again just now and something else struck me, spot reduction is a complete myth, any reduction in fat on the body is done by general fat loss.
For instance if you have fat in a place and you exercise that one place to get rid of the fat, that doesn't work. What does work is general fat burning exercises that burn general body fat.

To have legs that skinny is firstly, unhealthy from the point of view that, there's virtually no fat and no muscle on them and secondly to be that skinny most girls would probably have issues with weight in not having enough fat to be healthy, which is an even worse message to send out. It's begging to encourage eating disorders in women. Which is a horrendous thing to encourage.

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AndyBa
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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby AndyBa » Sep 23, 2010 10:12 am

Hi, aoas.
I am sorry that you became angry about the message on the image.
But the advertising on the image is of vegtalk.org and not of veganism and beauty is a subjective matter.
I know the person on the photo personally and she is absolutely healthy. She is like this because she was really active when she was a child. She did acrobatics and stuff... absolutely not an eating disorder.
I know that people can gain weight on a vegan diet - it's about what you eat and how you eat. Not about what you avoid in meals.
And again there is nothing about veganism written on the image - just the site name.

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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 23, 2010 5:10 pm

AndyBa wrote:Hi, aoas.
I am sorry that you became angry about the message on the image.
But the advertising on the image is of vegtalk.org and not of veganism and beauty is a subjective matter.
I know the person on the photo personally and she is absolutely healthy. She is like this because she was really active when she was a child. She did acrobatics and stuff... absolutely not an eating disorder.
I know that people can gain weight on a vegan diet - it's about what you eat and how you eat. Not about what you avoid in meals.
And again there is nothing about veganism written on the image - just the site name.


So you're claiming that if you want legs like that you should come to veg talk, A VEGAN MESSAGE BOARD, presumably to get them.

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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby BigBecka » Sep 24, 2010 12:07 pm

aoas,
I take on board your points, but statistically people lose an average of 2 stone when they become vegan. There was a warning to this effect on the vegan society website. Plus, if you need to lose weight, a low-fat vegetarian diet is a great place to start - my doctor was always telling me to cut down on fat.

There's quite a bit of discussion on the 'slim legs' thread - not everybody likes the photo or finds it attractive. I agree that most women would struggle to obtain legs like that. Using thin models is a problem in advertising in general, and this photo was posted before the real women and anti size zero campaigns. I think this forum is great opportunity to give feedback to vegan men like Andy, and tell them that maybe women won't like these kinds of images?

I have thought of asking Andy to photograph my not-so-slim legs... But I don't think anyone wants that to happen!

aoas
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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 24, 2010 3:12 pm

BigBecka wrote:aoas,
I take on board your points, but statistically people lose an average of 2 stone when they become vegan. There was a warning to this effect on the vegan society website. Plus, if you need to lose weight, a low-fat vegetarian diet is a great place to start - my doctor was always telling me to cut down on fat.

There's quite a bit of discussion on the 'slim legs' thread - not everybody likes the photo or finds it attractive. I agree that most women would struggle to obtain legs like that. Using thin models is a problem in advertising in general, and this photo was posted before the real women and anti size zero campaigns. I think this forum is great opportunity to give feedback to vegan men like Andy, and tell them that maybe women won't like these kinds of images?

I have thought of asking Andy to photograph my not-so-slim legs... But I don't think anyone wants that to happen!


It's interesting, everyone on the other sites I've spoken to agrees with me. On this site you're both defending it.

And just because the statistics state that many people lose weight, that doesn't mean people ought to turn to veganism for weight loss purposes, that's just stupid. Adapting a vegan diet for that purpose is fine, but just turning to veganism for that reason is plain retarded.

It's not just about struggling to obtain legs like that, most women if they were to try to get those legs would end up at stupidly unhealthy weights. The whole issue different people having different weight distributions seems to be ignored, and skinniness is being prescribed.

I'm still waiting for a decent defence instead of someone saying "well technically" and ignoring the blatant implications of the advert.

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby BigBecka » Sep 25, 2010 6:46 pm

aoas, I'm not going to give the defence you want :) the woman in the photo is thin, but not "stupidly unhealthy." I have seen thinner models in fashion magazines (and I do not support them). As such, I don't see these "blatent implications."

I don't appreciate being called "retarded" :-? Historically vegetarianism (in Europe, at least) was introduced for sustainability and health reasons. Part of that is maintaining a slim, healthy weight. Some weight loss plans (like food optimizing) advocate cutting down on meat and dairy (and even becoming vegetarian) and they are approved by the national health service. :bom:

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby RandyK » Sep 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Slender is healthy only if it includes athleticism. Skinny and weak aren't attractive. I think a slender woman with well developed athletic legs is damn sexy.

The only really fat women I know are cheese-loving carnivores. As far as the picture in question is concerned, it doesn't do much for me.

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby aoas » Sep 26, 2010 1:21 am

BigBecka wrote:aoas, I'm not going to give the defence you want :) the woman in the photo is thin, but not "stupidly unhealthy." I have seen thinner models in fashion magazines (and I do not support them). As such, I don't see these "blatent implications."

I don't appreciate being called "retarded" :-? Historically vegetarianism (in Europe, at least) was introduced for sustainability and health reasons. Part of that is maintaining a slim, healthy weight. Some weight loss plans (like food optimizing) advocate cutting down on meat and dairy (and even becoming vegetarian) and they are approved by the national health service. :bom:


I said that something is retarded, not that you or anyone else is retarded. Clever people do and say retarded things from time to time.

More than that I said for most women to get legs that thing, they would have to be stupidly unhealthy and thin. Different women have different weight distributions. Please stop putting up straw-man arguments.

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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Oct 1, 2010 11:26 pm

AndyBa wrote:Hi, aoas.
I am sorry that you became angry about the message on the image.
But the advertising on the image is of vegtalk.org and not of veganism and beauty is a subjective matter.
I know the person on the photo personally and she is absolutely healthy. She is like this because she was really active when she was a child. She did acrobatics and stuff... absolutely not an eating disorder.
I know that people can gain weight on a vegan diet - it's about what you eat and how you eat. Not about what you avoid in meals.
And again there is nothing about veganism written on the image - just the site name.


As you've not replied yet I'll reply again:
Explain why someone who wanted legs like that should go on this vegan message board in order to achieve that look?
And lets say that someone hadn't done acrobatics as a child, how will you try to get them to come onto this site?

Also what does that have to do with, as the banner at the top of the website says:
"Vegan Forum-Discussions about vegan and Vegetarian lifestyle, Vegan Recipes, Animal Rights Issues, Vegan Health and more".

Oh wait, you thought you'd dedicate that entire advert to the "and more", because it's your horribly vague get out?

Please, do go into more detail, because I know a lot of vegans and vegetarians who are hoping for a decent reply.

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby snog » Oct 2, 2010 4:56 pm

Gotta say that I take a dim view of any kind of sexploitation of women. It is just another form of oppression... I don't see how it can forward the message behind being vegan...

To address the weight issue: :cat:

Oh, but I DO hope I can lose some weight by having adopted a vegan diet, lol. I am, well, rather rubinesque...

Much of vegan fare is moderate to low cal. Exceptions are nuts and fatty salty snax. But, while it's pretty easy to eat tons of potato chips, it's pretty hard to eat a lot of nuts. I find that after eating a quarter cup of nuts or seeds, that I'm pretty satiated. Beyond that, I will get indigestion. Nuts help keep me full, which is great. Whilst on the dr ornish plan, I ate 10% fat most days, and boy, did I carbo load to keep full. Granted, the carbs were primarily whole grains, but calories are calories. Too many of any of these will pack on the pounds. I feel better eating nuts, seeds and their butters. I don't have to gorge of whole wheat pasta, brown rice and the like to keel full. Which, btw, I'd be hungry again in just a couple hours. The healthy fats keep me fuller longer on a good deal less...

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby aoas » Oct 3, 2010 12:42 pm

snog wrote:Gotta say that I take a dim view of any kind of sexploitation of women. It is just another form of oppression... I don't see how it can forward the message behind being vegan...

To address the weight issue: :cat:

Oh, but I DO hope I can lose some weight by having adopted a vegan diet, lol. I am, well, rather rubinesque...

Much of vegan fare is moderate to low cal. Exceptions are nuts and fatty salty snax. But, while it's pretty easy to eat tons of potato chips, it's pretty hard to eat a lot of nuts. I find that after eating a quarter cup of nuts or seeds, that I'm pretty satiated. Beyond that, I will get indigestion. Nuts help keep me full, which is great. Whilst on the dr ornish plan, I ate 10% fat most days, and boy, did I carbo load to keep full. Granted, the carbs were primarily whole grains, but calories are calories. Too many of any of these will pack on the pounds. I feel better eating nuts, seeds and their butters. I don't have to gorge of whole wheat pasta, brown rice and the like to keel full. Which, btw, I'd be hungry again in just a couple hours. The healthy fats keep me fuller longer on a good deal less...


I don't have an issue with someone saying "I think I look pretty, here is my body".
I have issues with that being prescribed as if other people should want that, and issues with that being linked to veganism.

With regards to a vegan diet most vegans need to eat more in volume but that generally just happens. Many people gain weight when they turn vegan, it depends on the individual.

The rest of your post should probably be put in another thread as that's not got anything to do with this topic.

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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby Sergio » Oct 11, 2010 9:17 pm

Do you think it is incorrect to promote veganism by using images of attractive humans?

aoas
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Re: Shocked and appualed by the message sent out by vegtalk

Postby aoas » Oct 12, 2010 8:44 pm

Sergio wrote:Do you think it is incorrect to promote veganism by using images of attractive humans?


Incorrect in what way? I think it's stupid, irresponsible, misleading manipulative to imply that veganism will help people lose weight or have a certain fat distribution on their legs.
I think it's idiotic and damages the vegan image to associate veganism with a prescription of what attractive legs ought to look like.

When you say incorrect please give more of a context.
Do you mean empirically, do you mean morally, do you mean logically, do you mean politically?

aoas
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Re: Shocked And Appualed By The Message Sent Out By Vegtalk

Postby aoas » Oct 22, 2010 2:30 am

So no-one has a good defence for a poorly made and thought up idea, and it's terrible execution into the real world?


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