The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

General Vegan and Vegetarian Talk forum. Learn about veganism and its relation to environment, morality and human health.
AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Feb 6, 2011 4:43 pm

Hi, if you have ever used any of these products you are not a vegan.

All of these products come from cattle
From the top!
Brain: Anti-aging cream, Medicines

Hooves/Horns: Adhesives, plastics, pet food, plant food, photo film, shampoo and conditioner, lamination, wallpaper, plywood

Blood: Posta, imitation eggs, cake mixes, dyes and inks, adhesives, minerals, medicines, lab research materials

Bones: Refined sugar, charcoal, fertilizer, glass

Internal organs: Instrumental strings, tennis racquet string, hormones, enzymes, vitamins and other medical materials

Milk: Adhesives, plastics, cosmetics, medicines

Hair: air filters, brushes, felt, insulation, plaster, textiles

Skin: Gelatin, flavorings, sheetrock, wallpaper, adhesives, medicines, candies and confectionary
Manure: fertilizer, nitrogen, phosphorous

Fat: Chewing gum, candles, detergents, fabric softener, deoderant, shaving cream, perfume, petfood, cosmetics, creams and lotions, crayons, paint, oils and lubraicants, biodiesel, plastics, waterproofing agents, cement, chalk, explosives, fireworks, matches, fertilizer, antifreeze, insulation, linoleum, rubber, textiles, medicines

ReveElectrique
Vegan Forum Visitor
Posts: 7
Joined: Jan 31, 2011 6:05 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby ReveElectrique » Feb 8, 2011 4:44 pm

I'm sorry to inform you but you don't know what a vegan is. It must be really awful to go through life and be using the wrong words at the wrong times. Especially on forums where you try to look smart, inspire hatred, exact a little vengeance, and turn out to just look like a silly meat eating hater.

A vegan is someone who does their very best to eliminate as much animal suffering as possible from their lives. This starts out with eliminating meat, eggs, milk and dairy. It continues with getting rid of gelatin, rennet, leather, suede, and wool. Then it changes how you talk to people. You approach them with love and kindness and change how you say things. You realize that pet stores sell slaves not pets. Then you approach people as humans that are just animals, equal to all others. You realize we are all fallible, all can learn from each other. Every time you learn that something includes suffering you do your best to cut it out of your diet and work towards it.

Also only 50% of refined sugar is from cows. Get your facts straight before you go on a hatred rant. <3

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Feb 11, 2011 3:07 pm

Aww do vegans really do their "very best". What a vague and largely useless definition of veganism.
I'm sorry if I upset you, maybe you should go and lie down on your bet. BUT WAIT! What's holding those planks together...Yep, you guessed it, glue AKA:Cow hooves and horns.

Hey how about you listen to some nice classical music instead? Oh crap never mind, the strings are pretty much just cow guts...bummer.

Look, even just sitting in the comfort of my own home can calm me down sometimes maybe you should try it yourself.....oh damn.
That insulation in your walls.....cow hair.

I know you might be getting stressed right now so maybe go and see a doctor DAMN IT! Medicinal research uses animals every day.

Well sorry, I just can't help you pal. But thanks for letting me know that only 50% of Refined sugar is from cows. Now for every 2 grains of refined sugar you eat you're eating a bit of a cows skull, awesome.

Oh and by the way, here's a definition of veganism that actually holds water "Lifestyle choice which excludes the consumption and use of animal flesh and by-products" greenmeetings.travelportland.com/greenmeet101/greenGlossary.html
<3

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Postby dragonfly » Feb 14, 2011 6:05 pm

major pile of fail.

Image

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Mar 7, 2011 4:24 pm

Thanks, if I knew how to upload images to this site like you do that would have saved me a lot of time and sore fingers.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Mar 9, 2011 7:29 pm

obviously you don't know what a vegan is, i find the semi-literate oafish nonsense you spew here mildly amusing. :roll:

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Mar 10, 2011 4:18 am

Roll your eyes and call names all you will, the definition of a vegan is: A person who does not consume, use or eat any animal products.

Using this definition (please feel free to share your own), many people who claim to be vegans are not, in fact, vegans at all.

I am also slightly amused by the fact that in the same sentence you call me "semi-literate" you fail to begin said sentence with a capital letter, an aspect of literacy taught to most first grade students. Hypocrisy at its finest.

daraalt
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 3
Joined: Mar 10, 2011 11:27 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby daraalt » Mar 10, 2011 11:52 pm

i'm new to this forum. so forgive me if this has been addressed already.

AdamD, why did you join a forum that you obviously have no interest in....except to debate people on their lifestyle choices or possibly to be a "flamer" ??? were you one of those whiny nerdy kids in school that had to prove people wrong all the time? are you that bored in life?

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Mar 11, 2011 2:45 am

You're forgiven daraalt.

I clearly have interest in the topic of Veganism I just haven't chosen it to be part of my lifestyle and it confuses me why anyone would. Therein lies my interest, I am on a quest to not only find a real vegan but to get a logical set of reasons behind their lifestyle.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby dragonfly » Mar 12, 2011 11:01 pm

more semi-literate retarded spew, your "bubbleboy" diplomacy here is comical and absurd. you are relying upon your rather moronic and foolish/singular definition for being vegan and veganism. there are other defintions. veganism is an ethical and logical choice to reduce suffering whenever and wherever possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05zhL1YUd8Q

from : http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=9 ... opic=15882

Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.

Animals such as most humans, who are able to consciously and freely choose - as far as possible and practical - a plant-based diet and other lifestyle factors, can be vegan.

Animals who cannot consciously and freely choose their diet and lifestyle, do not have the same ethical responsibility as we animals who can.

So there are two key factors here. (1) The capacity in principle to choose. (2) The practicality and possibility of the choice.


and daraalt i would hardly call this childish moronic spew competent debate.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Mar 17, 2011 10:39 am

Yes, please continue to change your definition of vegan to fit your argument.

Who knows, perhaps in a decade everyone will be a 'vegan', I bet there will still be a thriving meat industry anyway if you keep on changing the meaning of the word.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Mar 17, 2011 7:11 pm

i have changed nothing adam, you are just a lowbow narrowminded dronomatic troll, willfully ignorant of the truth behind the sadistic cruelty and horrific, brutal , barbaric suffering that goes into eating the flesh of tortured and dead non-human animals. you don't have the commonsense or the courage to go vegan, why you spew your idiotic nonsense here is anybodys guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwNmolBr1w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5hA3PN0uic

philosopher
Vegan Talk Frequenter
Posts: 33
Joined: Mar 7, 2011 9:36 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby philosopher » Mar 20, 2011 4:27 am

Yet another reason why I don't like labeling myself as a vegan. You can call me whatever you like, it really doesn't matter. I was a "vegan" before I knew of that word. Arguing over the subject is a waste of time.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Mar 23, 2011 5:54 am

Fair call philosopher, this idea of not labeling yourself as a vegan but rather just subscribing to that way of life makes a fair bit of sense.


Calling me a "lowbow narrowminded dronomatic troll, willfully ignorant of the truth behind the sadistic cruelty and horrific, brutal , barbaric suffering that goes into eating the flesh of tortured and dead non-human animals" simply because I don't agree with your life choice and that I am confident enough to say it here... nice. Out of politeness if nothing else please try and keep the insults to a minimum dragonfly, it dilutes any arguments you make to the extent they just seem like rage induced drivel.

Also what on Earth does dronomatic mean hahaha :faroah: .

rhiancummins89
Vegan Forum Visitor
Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 21, 2011 9:13 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby rhiancummins89 » Mar 28, 2011 1:48 pm

We are doing everything to the best of our knowledge to respect animals, to respect our bodies and to respect the environment.

It's easy to stand there and criticise, and try to 'catch us out', but the question is, what are you doing?

It might be worthwhile watching this film to better understand why we want to call ourselves vegans, and why we do everything we can to the best of our knowledge to live by this title. After all 'Vegan' is just a word to describe a way of living, it's not the title that is important, it's what we choose to do to try and benefit the lives of animals, ourselves and the environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys

Hope this helps you to better understand why we choose this lifestyle, and why you should not try to undermine our best efforts to live by this.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Mar 30, 2011 12:06 am

AdamD wrote:Also what on Earth does dronomatic mean hahaha :faroah: .

lol. you are incapable of independent thought, have no critical thinking skills, and couldn't think yer way outta' a brown paper bag. oh and only capable of pointless, immaterial "troll-spew" and childish "cheaper by the dozen" commentary. :laughing5: :angry8:

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Apr 7, 2011 4:29 pm

Yet you're still the one calling me childish names, funny that.

Also, you still haven't elaborated on what "dronomatic" means. It's not really that important but please feel free to enlighten us lesser beings to your amazing linguistic makery uppery skills.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby dragonfly » Apr 7, 2011 6:47 pm

your dullard/bigotted speciesist drivel is of no concern to me, your trashy gradeschool hypothoses and childish, mindless sloganeering is of little consequence. grow a pair today. :angry8: :angel9: :angry8:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U7w92UW52E

slola1
Vegan Forum Visitor
Posts: 8
Joined: Apr 9, 2011 6:40 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby slola1 » Apr 9, 2011 7:37 am

Adam,

I do not know any Vegan who will claim to have completely eliminated animal products from their lives. The definition you are quoting is vague and misleading. Vegans simply try their best to reduce the amount of suffering onto another being. I am agreeing with you, there IS no such thing as a true vegan, but please give us the same respect as I did agreeing with your petty arguments, and do not mock us because of the fact that we are merely human and make mistakes. Vegans do not yet have control over the suffering, pain and greif caused while harvesting these things that you have listed that go into just about every product available. But as Vegans, our goal is to one by one eliminate this.

From one person to another, I would strongly encourage you to educate yourself further on this subject. There is certainly no lack in studies, information and evidence supporting our life style. If I had one thing to suggest for you to learn more is to watch the Earthlings video (you can find it if you google search Earthlings, I cannot post the link on here or someone else posted a link to it above if you are interested). The information may surprise you. The only thing you have to lose is a small amount of your time.

Thank you for respecting our decisions and opinions, and not tormenting more people on this site (we use this site to collaberate together, not argue with meat eaters). Have a wonderful day. :)

Dacite
Vegan Forum Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Apr 7, 2011 9:53 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby Dacite » Apr 9, 2011 11:31 am

Thanks Adam for the information sharing.
There is still a lot of awareness missing where do some things originate from. Sure, there are products, items that do have vegan alternatives.
That is what I stand for also: that we keep learning and practice our lifestyle knowing what is what.

The more people will go veg just in their food+cloth choices, the faster companies will provide alternatives to the animal byproducts. Once people do not eat meat and milk, companies would not keep animals just for the byproducts their bodies are providing.

Thanks again for raising such an important question.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Apr 10, 2011 6:32 pm

slola, I find it odd that you call my rather specific definition vague. My definition has several easily defined criteria which clearly divide vegans and non vegans. Words like "try their best" are ambiguous and lead to vague definitions. My definition is clear but the term itself in its most used context is misleading. Note that the definition is clear but the use of the word is misleading.

Also please, lets not pretend that I'm receiving any level of respect here, why, the poster just before said "your dullard/bigotted speciesist drivel is of no concern to me, your trashy gradeschool hypothoses and childish, mindless sloganeering is of little consequence. grow a pair today", I mean, that's just one big running sentence of disrespect. If you find me calling this guy up on the fact that he has hardly presented one coherent argument and resorts to name calling on a postly basis disrespectful then I am sorry for that. But please, let's not pretend that I'm the one being overtly disrespectful here.

slola1
Vegan Forum Visitor
Posts: 8
Joined: Apr 9, 2011 6:40 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby slola1 » Apr 10, 2011 9:38 pm

I 100% agree with you, that the poster who said those things to you was being more disrespectful to you, than you were to him. But lets be honest, you registered to this forum for Vegan people so that you could argue with them about their opinions and beliefs. When you do that, you can't expect people to be nice to you or respect what you have to say because you're just asking for it.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Apr 10, 2011 10:38 pm

stop pussyfooting around and coddling this speciesist neanderthal macaroon. :dontknow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4YX_iVWIe0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNVWIdWpG0

slola1
Vegan Forum Visitor
Posts: 8
Joined: Apr 9, 2011 6:40 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby slola1 » Apr 10, 2011 11:55 pm

Dragonfly, as much as he's pissing us all off, it would be extremely hypocritical of me to say that we are all equal and should have equal rights and treat everything with respect, and not treat Adam with respect. It would be hypocritical of me to demand that he respects me, if I do not respect him. I may not agree with his opinion, or the way that he is going about expressing it, but that doesn't make him any lesser than me, so I'm not going to be rude to him and then just hope that he'll be polite and go away, which we all know he isnt going to.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Apr 12, 2011 9:41 am

Thank you slola :)
"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire


AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Apr 25, 2011 11:42 pm

Dragonfly I'd appreciate it if you at least tried to formulate a coherent argument in any of my threads. Please just make an effort.

robkay
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 6
Joined: Apr 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby robkay » Apr 27, 2011 12:24 pm

A vegan is someone who does their very best to eliminate as much animal suffering as possible from their lives. This starts out with eliminating meat, eggs, milk and dairy. It continues with getting rid of gelatin, rennet, leather, suede, and wool. Then it changes how you talk to people. You approach them with love and kindness and change how you say things. You realize that pet stores sell slaves not pets. Then you approach people as humans that are just animals, equal to all others. You realize we are all fallible, all can learn from each other. Every time you learn that something includes suffering you do your best to cut it out of your diet and work towards it.


ReveElectrique, that's one of the most inspiring things I've read in a long time. Pity you let AdamD wind you up as well... The kinder you are in your life to others and the world around you the happier you are - it's one of the few things about life that is irrefutable to me (though I accept it may not be to others). We're all selfish but vegans (or whatever you want to call them) are just a bit smarter, or luckier maybe to know that altruism brings happiness.

Dacite
Vegan Forum Member
Posts: 105
Joined: Apr 7, 2011 9:53 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby Dacite » Apr 27, 2011 1:24 pm

I agree - kindness and gentleness are two crucial characteristics of very powerful personalities.
However we might think that people will listen to those who are shouting out louder and with criticism to everyone and everything, in reality - intelligent people will follow those who have values and principles but still are kind, generous and optimistic about life.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby AdamD » Apr 28, 2011 9:44 am

Being nice is good and all but it doesn't change the fact that most people who call themselves vegans actually aren't.

As for intelligent/powerful people being nice, you seem to be very misguided. As for powerful people, I bet the CEO s of the modern super corporations didn't get there by being nice. As for intelligence, red meat was actually what provided the protein rich diet that allowed mankind to become smarter and stronger and eventually ascend to the top of the food chain so if anything veganism encourages a lack of intelligence.

Cosmo811
Vegan Forum noob
Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 28, 2011 6:29 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby Cosmo811 » Apr 28, 2011 6:42 pm

A few things.

@Dragonfly while you may not agree with Adam, your posts are actually rather a waste of time reading. You name call in a, frankly, pathetic attempt at showing off your *cough* broad vocabulary. You present, quite literally, no logical argument to your case or even against Adam's and you are extremely disrespectful. I'm new here, and thoroughly interested in vegetarianism and, to a far lesser extent veganism, but if you're representative of this group I'm not interested. Maybe if you actually tried to argue your point rationally, without resorting to pathetic name-calling, using sources to back up your points and actually writing an argument rather than just linking random, rather horrific, videos, rather than just calling Adam names over and over again I, and others, might be prepared to listen to you a little more.

Next:
slola1 wrote:Vegans simply try their best to reduce the amount of suffering onto another being.


Slola, I liked your post a lot. I agreed on a number of points, and it had a very nice tone to it, rather in contrast to Dragonfly; however I will call you out on this one point: that is, quite simply, not the definition of a vegan. I try my best to reduce the amount of suffering onto other beings, does that make me a vegan? No, of course not. I realise that you agreed with him on this but I felt that I should call you on it so as to correct anyone else who may read and/or post in this thread,

In a way though, I suppose it can be possible. The definitions technically only cover diet (Dictionary.c0m, Wikipedia and Cambridge Dictionary all only mention diet), so using products such as hair conditioner, if not consumed in the diet, actually don't make you any less of a vegan. That's my take on it. I don't see why you would be a vegan, but that's another topic for another time.

~Matt.

VBryan
Advanced Vegan Talker
Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 29, 2011 12:50 am

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby VBryan » Apr 29, 2011 1:39 am

Essentially all the protein/protein building blocks come from plants. Carnivores just wait for all those herbivores to take it all in, build it up and then eat them.
I love your science which stipulates that if you eat meat you will become intelligent. This theory that meat consumption or any type of food consumption (almost by default it seems) changes the genetics of generations is quite a theory indeed. There is a lot of science that is being discovered that indicates that some genetic change can occur in a lifetime due to lifestyle/viruses but not anything as plainly concrete as what you are suggesting.
An experiment in which meat is fed to herbivores with a probable outcome of subsequently more intelligent generations is not likely to be real science any time soon.

BriVegas
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 6
Joined: Apr 29, 2011 2:12 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby BriVegas » Apr 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Alright. I have one question. I am absolutely ADDICTED to chewing gum. Is there any gum that is completely VEGAN?

robkay
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 6
Joined: Apr 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby robkay » Apr 29, 2011 6:47 pm

Hmmm, Adam, I said 'happy' people, not 'powerful' and I think you're probably misinterpretting Dacite's meaning when he (she?:) says 'powerful personality'. As for intelligence, personally I can say I've felt a whole lot more clear headed since cutting out meat (in fact so does everyone I've ever met who's done it). But that's not necessarily evidence against what you say about a protein rich diet because the meat we have access to these days is pretty much unrecognisable from what our hunter gatherer ancestors ate. It used to be lean and fit and healthy. Now it's pumped full of antibiotics, fat, and grown quickly in dreadful conditions. So it wouldn't be so surprising if it made you fuzzy headed...

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » May 2, 2011 1:00 pm

First off the bat I'd just like to than Matt for encouraging actual argument rather than name-calling.

Yeah rob I was referring to Dacite I think who mentioned powerful personalities, because power and happiness are two very different things.

As for you feeling better, I know you aren't really using this as evidence per say but it is still very anecdotal and doesn't really count for much. Any number of things could be influencing how you feel and it's just impossible to say which is making you feel more clear headed.

You're absolutely right about our diet being different in many ways from our hunter-gatherer ancestors but that's because we are very different and the reasons we eat are very different. Eating has undeniably (At least in the west) moved beyond a matter of survival and on to a matter of pleasure so all of these fatty/greasy/modern foods are to an extent justified if only because they taste good to the majority of people. As for being "fuzzy headed" I think I know what you're getting at but intelligence goes far beyond having clear thoughts, the simple fact that humanity has prospered so much on an omnivorous diet is evidence to prove that the diet we have chosen is excellent for us.

VBryan, bio accumulation has long been an effective way to get large amounts of useful nutrients with less effort. I can for example hunt and eat a deer by chasing it for 2 hours and eat the results of its' 3 days of grazing. It's just more efficient.

As for the science that you seem to attribute to me, it's been explained as not so much a genetic change (at least not over short amounts of time) but rather a functional change. People who are well fed and not malnourished due to their choice to eat meat (I am of course referring to history not right now) were able to be more active and efficient in their lives and over lifetimes this efficiency adds up into practical advantages that no society on Earth to date has been willing to sacrifice in favor of animal welfare. As for feeding a herbivore meat, as I explained this is a long term process that occurs over a life time or multiple lifetimes.

And please don't call it 'my' science, I don't own it. I'm not even particularly well versed in it.

awething
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 3
Joined: May 12, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby awething » May 24, 2011 1:36 am

I can honestly say I don't care one bit if people calling themselves vegans aren't "true" vegans. The fact that they are even trying means they are doing 110% more than most people and for that I respect them. I and I'm pretty sure a lot of other "vegans" use the word to loosely define their diet meaning they avoid animal products. If you want to get technical I'm not going to kick and scream if anyone declares me "non-vegan". I follow my own personal set of guidelines that I'm sure a lot of "vegans" wouldn't be happy with anyway. For instance, I eat eggs from my local farmers market because I've seen how the chickens are raised and I feel comfortable eating the eggs. Also, I am NOT anti-hunting/fishing as I believe it is a far more natural and ethical (if done right) way of acquiring food than factory farming and keeps people in touch with their place in a natural food web.

So if anyone "vegan" or not wants to criticize me for my choices by calling me a "non-vegan" I really wouldn't be offended. I am following my ethics, my beliefs, and my personal diet that works for me. I hope I'm not wrong when I say others follow a similar path.

*side note: if anything, I see the word "vegan" as an easier way of explaining yourself to people who don't know you well enough to know your specific eating/buying habits. When someone tries to pass you the deviled eggs and then asks why you don't want any, it's a lot easier to say "sorry I'm vegan" than saying "oh sorry I don't eat meat, milk, cheese or eggs produced in a cruel or inhumane way but thanks!" The word is meant to describe a lifestyle, not define you as a person.

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » May 25, 2011 6:27 pm

Sure you can call your lifestyle vegan if you want but so could I. We'd both be liars though :cyclopsani:

awething
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 3
Joined: May 12, 2011 6:40 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby awething » May 26, 2011 12:42 am

Oh shit, some random troll on the internet is calling me a liar, I better reconsider my morals and lifestyle! :roll:

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Jun 1, 2011 7:24 pm

slola1 wrote:Dragonfly, as much as he's pissing us all off, it would be extremely hypocritical of me to say that we are all equal and should have equal rights and treat everything with respect, and not treat Adam with respect. It would be hypocritical of me to demand that he respects me, if I do not respect him. I may not agree with his opinion, or the way that he is going about expressing it, but that doesn't make him any lesser than me, so I'm not going to be rude to him and then just hope that he'll be polite and go away, which we all know he isnt going to.

only a certifiable idiot would coddle this childish, dull-minded, selfish troll. there is no reason to treat adam with respect, he has the mind, morals and critical thinking skills of a confused little child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWx6ukNnq7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIwURs5ENhM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNVWIdWpG0
Last edited by dragonfly on Dec 30, 2011 3:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Jun 1, 2011 7:29 pm

awething wrote:I can honestly say I don't care one bit if people calling themselves vegans aren't "true" vegans. The fact that they are even trying means they are doing 110% more than most people and for that I respect them. I and I'm pretty sure a lot of other "vegans" use the word to loosely define their diet meaning they avoid animal products. If you want to get technical I'm not going to kick and scream if anyone declares me "non-vegan". I follow my own personal set of guidelines that I'm sure a lot of "vegans" wouldn't be happy with anyway. For instance, I eat eggs from my local farmers market because I've seen how the chickens are raised and I feel comfortable eating the eggs. Also, I am NOT anti-hunting/fishing as I believe it is a far more natural and ethical (if done right) way of acquiring food than factory farming and keeps people in touch with their place in a natural food web.

So if anyone "vegan" or not wants to criticize me for my choices by calling me a "non-vegan" I really wouldn't be offended. I am following my ethics, my beliefs, and my personal diet that works for me. I hope I'm not wrong when I say others follow a similar path.

*side note: if anything, I see the word "vegan" as an easier way of explaining yourself to people who don't know you well enough to know your specific eating/buying habits. When someone tries to pass you the deviled eggs and then asks why you don't want any, it's a lot easier to say "sorry I'm vegan" than saying "oh sorry I don't eat meat, milk, cheese or eggs produced in a cruel or inhumane way but thanks!" The word is meant to describe a lifestyle, not define you as a person.

you're a vegetarian, not a vegan. :dontknow:

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Jul 3, 2011 7:23 am

dragonfly wrote:
slola1 wrote:Dragonfly, as much as he's pissing us all off, it would be extremely hypocritical of me to say that we are all equal and should have equal rights and treat everything with respect, and not treat Adam with respect. It would be hypocritical of me to demand that he respects me, if I do not respect him. I may not agree with his opinion, or the way that he is going about expressing it, but that doesn't make him any lesser than me, so I'm not going to be rude to him and then just hope that he'll be polite and go away, which we all know he isnt going to.

only a certifiable idiot would coddle this childish, dull-minded, selfish troll. there is no reason to treat adam with respect, he has the mind, morals and critical thinking skills of a confused little child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWx6ukNnq7Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4YX_iVWIe0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNVWIdWpG0



If this is true then why do you continually fail to address my well thought out points and constantly fall back on name calling?

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Aug 11, 2011 2:43 am


AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby AdamD » Aug 12, 2011 4:28 am

dragonfly, spamming videos isn't addressing any of my points at all.

User avatar
Apocalyptica
Vegan Forum Guest
Posts: 15
Joined: Jun 9, 2011 11:22 pm
Location: Kitchener (Ontario, Canada)

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby Apocalyptica » Sep 2, 2011 8:24 pm

ReveElectrique wrote:A vegan is someone who does their very best to eliminate as much animal suffering as possible from their lives. This starts out with eliminating meat, eggs, milk and dairy. It continues with getting rid of gelatin, rennet, leather, suede, and wool. Then it changes how you talk to people. You approach them with love and kindness and change how you say things. You realize that pet stores sell slaves not pets. Then you approach people as humans that are just animals, equal to all others. You realize we are all fallible, all can learn from each other. Every time you learn that something includes suffering you do your best to cut it out of your diet and work towards it.

Exactly that!

I'm not sure I follow your logic, Adam: your argument reduces to this: if you can't do everything in your attempt to live a life that is in alignment with your values, you might as well do nothing. By that logic we should not bother trying to buy products that are fair-trade or not produced in a sweat shop because we will inevitably end up buying something that was not produced in an ethical manner. And if we find out our neighbour is molesting their daughter, we might as well do nothing because there are thousands of other people being molested at this very moment and, ya know, we can't stop them all.

Interestingly enough, most of the items on your list are ones that may include animal products but there is a cruelty free option available. These are the products that I have personally bought a vegan version of over the last 3 years: pet food, plant food, shampoo/conditioner, wallpaper, imitation eggs, cake mixes, minerals, refined sugar, fertilizer, enzymes, vitamins, instrument strings, cosmetics, brushes, felt, gelatin, flavorings, candies and confectionary, manure, gum, candles, fabric softener, shaving cream, perfume, creams and lotions, paint, lubricants and oils.

I have also been able to avoid taking medications that include animal products, but have taken ones that were likely tested on animals when they were first introduced (which is something I have no control over). Most of the other items I have either refrained from buying or haven't had the need to buy, but if and when I need to I will choose the vegan version if it is available.
Last edited by Apocalyptica on Sep 6, 2011 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AndyBa
Vegan Zealot
Posts: 892
Joined: May 27, 2001 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby AndyBa » Sep 2, 2011 9:46 pm

AdamD can you provide reference for each product that supposedly has animal ingredients and is used by vegans?
Because most of the products you listed have vegan versions.

CrystalMV
Active Vegan Talker
Posts: 22
Joined: Nov 4, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby CrystalMV » Sep 10, 2011 7:16 am

AndyBa wrote:AdamD can you provide reference for each product that supposedly has animal ingredients and is used by vegans?
Because most of the products you listed have vegan versions.

I guess he can't. This is a simplified version of his logic: animals are used for food, everyone eats food and that means nobody is vegan. Just a typical meat eater who wants to argue because he has nothing else to do.

vegangurl03
Active Vegan Talker
Posts: 18
Joined: Jul 5, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby vegangurl03 » Sep 10, 2011 9:08 pm

sure, theres no real way to eliminate EVERY SINGLE thing using animal products from our lives. thats just illogical and pointless. but the point is to eliminate every thing that IS possible. sure, one person being a vegan isn't going to ever stop the meat/dairy industry, but they will be saving hundreds and thousands of animals lives a year. and to those animals, it DOES matter. if there are, say, only a hundred vegans in the whole world, even then those hundreds and thousands of animals saved by one vegan will turn into a hundred times that number. and there are way more than 100 vegans in the world. so although it would be awesome if we could eliminate every single animal product from our lives and it would be amazing if the meat/dairy/egg industries were shut down, that's probably not gonna happen. at least not in a really long time. but even though animals are still being killed, the animals that we save by being vegan and doing everything possible to not use animal products, that will be millions of animals saved a year. "to the world, you may be just one person. but to one person, you may be the world." same for animals. even if only 10 animals were saved a year, it would make a difference for those 10 animals. that would be 10 less animals brutally slaughtered, 10 less animals dying so a few people can satisfy their (disgusting) desire to eat flesh, 10 less animals exploited because of us. and it MATTERS. point made :wink:

AdamD
Passionated Vegan Talker
Posts: 176
Joined: Nov 1, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby AdamD » Oct 3, 2011 4:52 am

AndyBa wrote:AdamD can you provide reference for each product that supposedly has animal ingredients and is used by vegans?
Because most of the products you listed have vegan versions.


Provide me a list of products "used by vegans" as well as their ingredients and I would be happy to let you know whether or not they are actually vegan.

Kramer
Vegan Talk Frequenter
Posts: 45
Joined: Jun 15, 2011 11:12 am
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby Kramer » Nov 17, 2011 9:32 am

That is so sad that people are still using poor animals for their meaningless purposes.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The Reason Why There Is No Such Thing As A Vegan

Postby dragonfly » Dec 30, 2011 3:53 am

Yes. that is a very humongous sad statement on the human condition, that is.

PixieKat
Vegan Forum Guest
Posts: 12
Joined: Nov 5, 2011 1:36 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby PixieKat » Jan 3, 2012 7:30 pm

Do not feed the troll. ;)

petcrusader
Vegan Forum Guest
Posts: 11
Joined: Jan 1, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby petcrusader » Jan 5, 2012 12:59 pm

Reve Electrique gave an excellent answer to your post.

While it may be true that the use of some products containing animal byproducts are unavoidable (if in fact things like bandaids contain them I don't know!), vegans do not eat or wear anything from an animal.

Also know there are plenty of beauty and household products that are vegan.

I think those that strive, or do, live this kinder and more humane lifestyle should be applauded, not attacked or mocked.

alexandermller82
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 22, 2012 4:36 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby alexandermller82 » Mar 6, 2012 4:20 am

A vegan is someone who does their very best to eliminate as much animal suffering as possible from their lives. This starts out with eliminating meat, eggs, milk and dairy. It continues with getting rid of gelatin, rennet, leather, suede, and wool. Then it changes how you talk to people. You approach them with love and kindness and change how you say things. You realize that pet stores sell slaves not pets. Then you approach people as humans that are just animals, equal to all others.

User avatar
dragonfly
Vegan Talk Veteran
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 15, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Strawberry Fields
Contact:

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby dragonfly » Mar 8, 2012 4:08 am

Cosmo811 wrote:@Dragonfly while you may not agree with Adam, your posts are actually rather a waste of time reading.
or so you say. and cosmos you appear to only be able to offer up dull non sequiturs and totally irrelevant, extremely vapid commentary. i shouldn't have to explain this to anybody. the anti-intellectualism on display here is shocking and comical.
You present... no logical argument to your case or even against Adam's and you are extremely disrespectful.
geeze.. Adam is a troll first and foremost, so he has no argument to offer. i am not being disrespectful, that is a delusional, "cornfed" and dullminded troll tactic, in and of itself. besides labels are totally useless, as far as analyzing any subject in depth goes. there are a good jumping off point, it is necessary, but childish finger pointing just ain't the same thing.

shahalam
Vegan Forum noob
Posts: 1
Joined: Mar 8, 2012 5:13 pm

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby shahalam » Mar 8, 2012 6:09 pm

Hi,

Thanks the post,

Keep sharing



__

YeKong90
Vegan Forum Beginner
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 9, 2012 2:13 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby YeKong90 » Mar 9, 2012 2:18 am

The account of distributors and area of the food can be begin on the Christian Louboutin Web site. A new ladies bazaar has been appointed to accessible in Turkey in 2012.

lynch009
Advanced Vegan Talker
Posts: 59
Joined: Jun 5, 2012 9:37 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby lynch009 » Jun 20, 2012 1:01 am

You had a point. I try to think about it.

lynch009
Advanced Vegan Talker
Posts: 59
Joined: Jun 5, 2012 9:37 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby lynch009 » Jun 21, 2012 12:57 am

Good opinion. It's your opinion we cannot disagree with that.

lynch009
Advanced Vegan Talker
Posts: 59
Joined: Jun 5, 2012 9:37 am

Re: The reason why there is no such thing as a vegan

Postby lynch009 » Jun 26, 2012 3:31 am

Thank you for sharing and letting us know about this.


 


  • RELATED_TOPICS
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Vegan Chat”