prevent other animals from killing and eating each other?

Talk about Animal Rights. How to protect non-human animals from being used or regarded as property by humans? Discuss ethical aspects of animal liberation activism.
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moralis
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prevent other animals from killing and eating each other?

Postby moralis » May 1, 2007 7:58 am

Should we try to prevent other animals from killing and eating each other?

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Postby BigBecka » May 1, 2007 9:12 pm

How on earth would you acheive this?!

I wouldn't force my eating habits on another person. I do get tired of my dad's cat eating birds (and giving me the feet). I might scold him if I catch him torturing an animal. But I can't stop him.

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Postby WarChild » May 2, 2007 6:42 am

BigBecka wrote:But I can't stop him.

It is not your job. Get a dog for that :lol:

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Postby BigBecka » May 2, 2007 7:59 pm

LOL :lol: We used to have a dog, but he was frightened of the cat. He was also frightened of rabbits, because one attacked him once... :albino:

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Postby AndyBa » May 3, 2007 7:13 pm

BigBecka wrote:LOL :lol: We used to have a dog, but he was frightened of the cat. He was also frightened of rabbits, because one attacked him once... :albino:

LOL!!! I would like to see this dog :) and the rabbit :)

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Postby WarChild » May 4, 2007 6:41 am

Image

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Red Jester
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Postby Red Jester » May 17, 2007 5:57 am

Mother Nature is doing just fine. Who are we to say we know better than her.

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Postby optomeb » May 24, 2007 8:36 pm

Yeap!

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Gladis
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Postby Gladis » Jun 10, 2007 8:28 pm

If we attempted to do this, it would result in an ecological disaster. It is necessary for animals such as lions to hunt in order for an ecological balance to be maintained. If all lions stopped hunting, it would be extremely detrimental to many of the species in the area, including the prey species itself. The harm done from the resulting ecological catastrophe would far outweigh any good which may have been done by saving a few gazelle from being eaten by lions.

Quote from Animal Rights and Vegetarian Ethics by Eugene Khutoryansky

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby meign » Sep 28, 2010 8:02 am

Becka is right, we can scold them but we can never stop them from doing such things... It's their instinct..

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby amnonymous » Oct 29, 2010 3:24 am

There is a lot of cruelty in the nature that we cannot change. If you prevent one animal to eat other animals, you help one animal, but harm another and this is not moral. It is like making tests on animals to help other animals, such humans.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby gibby » Oct 30, 2010 8:55 pm

its a good question & naturally I dont think we can or should do anything about it.

A few weeks ago though someone asked me a genuine question.
"do vegetarians keep pets such as dogs"

They were not being funny at all but trying to get their head around the concept of vegetarianism. They were asking me some really good questions & showing alot of interest.

They did find it confusing that a vegetarian would keep an animal that ate meat. By doing so it does cause other animals to be farmed & slaughtered, unless we feed them a veggie diet.
There is a big difference between animals living in the wild to keep a pet.

It also raises another good question over animal sanctuarys.
Do we, by donating money to a sanctuary (& I know many good veggies who do raise funds for them), cause more suffering long term than letting those animals die?
As an example, if we keep a meat eating animal alive in a sanctuary, it will be fed farmed & slaughtered animals for the rest of its life. Does this create more suffering as we keep one animal alive but killing many more to feed it?
I do know of one sanctuary that visits the local butchers daily for a very large order of meat. The staff are mostly vegan & sometimes get stuck on this issue.

its always horrible to put an animal down but would we save more lives by not taking in these abandoned animals?

its a hard question & I have never been able to make a decision on this.

G

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Nov 2, 2010 5:55 am

So...it's ok for any other animal that wants to eat meat to do so except for the human animal?
If the reasoning behind this is that non-human animals have it as instinct well, so do people.
When a species eats meat for pretty much it's entire excistence not only does it become the social norm, it actually becomes insinct.

Naturally then I see the counterpoint being 'But we have risen above this and don't need to eat meat like other animals do, we have alternatives'
The previous poster just proved that wrong. Most animals, much like humans, can gain all the required nutrients to survive from plant matter.
Of couse implementing this on a world wide scale is completely impractical but on a similar note so is stopping the majority of people from eating meat.

When it comes down to it we're just another animal, with all the pros and cons of that classification.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AndyBa » Nov 2, 2010 7:14 pm

AdamD wrote:So...it's ok for any other animal that wants to eat meat to do so except for the human animal?

First of all those animals have to eat meat to survive, it's not about want or don't want. Sure there are exceptions but these are rare.
Second you want to excuse a human behavior with the behavior of other animals: "If animals can do this so can we, right?"
But have you considered the fact that raping, stealing, cannibalism and other things that are considered unacceptable for humans are often committed in nature by many animals.

AdamD wrote:When a species eats meat for pretty much it's entire excistence not only does it become the social norm, it actually becomes insinct.

That thing about ENTIRE EXISTENCE has to be proved. Without tools humans are not good at hunting so most probably before tools were invented our ancestors were mostly vegetarians like many apes today.

I know people which lived in a village during childhood, when they saw how the rabbit or the kid they played with was killed for meat they couldn't eat that meat. And they new nothing about vegetarianism. Tell them about instincts.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby CircularMotion » Nov 3, 2010 2:35 am

AdamD wrote:So...it's ok for any other animal that wants to eat meat to do so except for the human animal?
If the reasoning behind this is that non-human animals have it as instinct well, so do people.
When a species eats meat for pretty much it's entire excistence not only does it become the social norm, it actually becomes insinct.

Naturally then I see the counterpoint being 'But we have risen above this and don't need to eat meat like other animals do, we have alternatives'
The previous poster just proved that wrong. Most animals, much like humans, can gain all the required nutrients to survive from plant matter.
Of couse implementing this on a world wide scale is completely impractical but on a similar note so is stopping the majority of people from eating meat.

When it comes down to it we're just another animal, with all the pros and cons of that classification.


In one sentence: Animals hunt, we factory farm.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby meign » Nov 4, 2010 1:39 am

Said it right Circularmotion :D

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby CrystalMV » Nov 4, 2010 5:09 pm

Yes, we should prevent other animals from killing each other for pleasure. But I find it hard to believe this could happen without an intervention of human.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby CircularMotion » Nov 4, 2010 11:41 pm

CrystalMV wrote:Yes, we should prevent other animals from killing each other for pleasure. But I find it hard to believe this could happen without an intervention of human.



Animals kill out of necessity.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby meign » Nov 5, 2010 1:03 am

If an animal starves, they tend to hurt other animals for food :(

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby GFinCAN » Jan 13, 2011 6:12 am

This is absolutely ridiculous. If animal eating habits were to be changed or altered by humans, the entire eco system would change drastically. Humans need to butt their stupid heads out of the natural way the animal kingdom works.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby babble » Jan 13, 2011 7:18 am

In a simple analysis, we don't have to eat animals except in exceedingly minority instances of subsistence. We CHOOSE to exploit animals for food.

It's likely that obligate carnivores don't make moral decisions. Wild carnivores are driven by instinct, but humans aren't. We're making a choice. That means that the question of the ethics of that become relevant.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Jan 23, 2011 7:57 pm

moralis wrote:Should we try to prevent other animals from killing and eating each other?
oh please. a very small percentage of animals are predators and carnivores, that is a convenient piece of "cornfed" remote propaganda. :tongue1:

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Feb 11, 2011 3:26 pm

CircularMotion wrote:
AdamD wrote:So...it's ok for any other animal that wants to eat meat to do so except for the human animal?
If the reasoning behind this is that non-human animals have it as instinct well, so do people.
When a species eats meat for pretty much it's entire excistence not only does it become the social norm, it actually becomes insinct.

Naturally then I see the counterpoint being 'But we have risen above this and don't need to eat meat like other animals do, we have alternatives'
The previous poster just proved that wrong. Most animals, much like humans, can gain all the required nutrients to survive from plant matter.
Of couse implementing this on a world wide scale is completely impractical but on a similar note so is stopping the majority of people from eating meat.

When it comes down to it we're just another animal, with all the pros and cons of that classification.


In one sentence: Animals hunt, we factory farm.


In two sentences: There are just under 7 Billion human beings on the planet. Do you want them to starve?

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby CircularMotion » Feb 17, 2011 1:17 pm

AdamD wrote:
CircularMotion wrote:
AdamD wrote:So...it's ok for any other animal that wants to eat meat to do so except for the human animal?
If the reasoning behind this is that non-human animals have it as instinct well, so do people.
When a species eats meat for pretty much it's entire excistence not only does it become the social norm, it actually becomes insinct.

Naturally then I see the counterpoint being 'But we have risen above this and don't need to eat meat like other animals do, we have alternatives'
The previous poster just proved that wrong. Most animals, much like humans, can gain all the required nutrients to survive from plant matter.
Of couse implementing this on a world wide scale is completely impractical but on a similar note so is stopping the majority of people from eating meat.

When it comes down to it we're just another animal, with all the pros and cons of that classification.


In one sentence: Animals hunt, we factory farm.


In two sentences: There are just under 7 Billion human beings on the planet. Do you want them to starve?


We could feed them much better if we fed them vegetables and grains. Factory farms here do not benefit the parts of the world where over half the population is. :)

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Mar 7, 2011 4:16 pm

Well sure but until you invent a magic want which removes all of the existing meat based food infrastructure and replace it with veggy based food infrastructure there isn't even much point discussing this. If you want real change you have to think in the real world.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Mar 9, 2011 8:48 pm

meign wrote:If an animal starves, they tend to hurt other animals for food :(

that is absolutely not true. only a very small percentage of animal species are predators that hunt and kill other animals. :roll:

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Mar 9, 2011 8:53 pm

AdamD wrote:
In two sentences: There are just under 7 Billion human beings on the planet. Do you want them to starve?


2011 World Hunger and Poverty Facts and Statistics
breadfortheworld - global hunger
at least 10% of the worlds population is already starving, even more are considered to be malnourished.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Mar 10, 2011 4:04 am

So why would you deprive them of a readily available source of importable food.

(I only say importable because most third world countries don't have thriving meat industries of their own)

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Mar 12, 2011 11:22 pm

AdamD wrote:So why would you deprive them of a readily available source of importable food.

(I only say importable because most third world countries don't have thriving meat industries of their own)

ZOMG! what a macaroon. adam i am not depriving anyone of anything. :bs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yys7RKlnqQ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U7w92UW52E

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Mar 17, 2011 10:37 am

So by taking away meat (theoretically of course) from third world countries you aren't depriving them of anything...


Riiiiiiiiiiight



Also, a macaroon is a small confectionery, as sweet as I am I don't think it's an apt description for me.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Mar 17, 2011 9:10 pm


AdamD
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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Mar 23, 2011 5:58 am

Veggies aren't green either (excuse the pun).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc7whecqvw8


I wonder what runs those machines?

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby ANne » Jul 25, 2011 4:41 pm

Nope it is part of the food chain and survival. nothing wrong with that!

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby ANne » Jul 25, 2011 4:44 pm

However, humans dont know better and would rather torture an animal just for food. :x humans are vindictive!!

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby AdamD » Aug 12, 2011 4:33 am

No we're not, we're hungry. We're a very hungry bunch and meat is a readily availible and efficient source of food. We kill animals in much more humane ways than animals kill eachother so out of all the omivorous species we're probably the least vindictive.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby VBryan » Sep 5, 2011 10:21 pm

Absolutely you cannot change things over night. But it is even worse to think too hard won't try in my view. By default many people will look for other food sources outside of meat due to environment issues, health issues as well as simple awareness. Sadly, as is it is right now, this very day, not in some future time, human life is the price being paid for the greater part of our often toxic existence in line with nature.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby Keiith » Jan 6, 2012 2:17 pm

The obvious answer is no. However, I wonder if there are any documented cases of an omnivorous wild animal choosing to eat an herbivores diet.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby SmeepRocket » Jan 6, 2012 5:16 pm

No. Animals are a part of the natural cycle, humans are not.

If a human is starving, I am the last person to tell him/her not to to eat meat. If it's for survival, go ahead. That said, we could deliver vegan food to starving people instead in this hypothetical scenario. I don't see a reason to mess with what starving people get before fixing people who eat meat and animal products because they can.

By the way, I don't understand why AdamD is tolerated. It would be fine if he was asking interesting questions or things that inspire thought, but it's like having a preschooler at a college debate. He can't wrap his head around the basic concepts, and everyone has to keep backtracking to hold his hand. I'm not opposed to his presence because he is a meat eater, but because he drags the conversation down quite a bit.

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Re: prevent other animals from killing and eating each other

Postby dragonfly » Feb 9, 2012 3:40 am

another colorless, mindless vegetarian myth. most animals are not predators and don't eat each other. besides that is a pretty silly and akward excuse to eat the flesh of brutally tortured and sadistically killed non-human animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0BSgLKnSk


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