Plants are no different than Animals

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Postby Guest » Jul 20, 2002 9:10 pm

I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.

Guest

Postby Guest » Jul 26, 2002 7:20 pm

don't commit suicide, if you are dead, than there is no way that you can aid in righting the wrongs of this world. you need to understand that you are doing the best you can. this guilt is in all of us, it's the drive that pushes us to do all we can to make the world better, for everyone and everything. direct the guilt into action, and you can do great things, but if you take your own life, you are not helping any cause. if you are dead, how can you spread the word of animal (or plant) rights? how can you make a difference if you are unable to talk? how can you act with passion that others can see your example and follow if you cannot feel? others feel the same, understand, please, that we are all just doing the best we can...

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Postby dragonfly » Sep 11, 2002 6:39 am

This message board needs more people.

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Postby sXeJVeg » Sep 13, 2002 4:08 am

I agree, but if all the posters here do is talk about suicide, i don't know how many people that will attract :smile:

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Postby dragonfly » Sep 20, 2002 2:10 am

Yeah that seems like a rather off-beat topic. As in a bad approach. i guess somebody wants to spread the feelings of distrust and moral incongruence here on too thick. :)

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Postby Karyuu » Apr 6, 2003 6:09 am

Heh, I realize I'm replying rather late to this topic, but you guys asked for more visitors, so here I am o_O I wanted to mention an Arrogant Worms song - Carrot Juice Is Murder. It's quite a laugh :D Check out the lyrics, at least. I recommend it. *nods*

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Postby Dodic » Apr 6, 2003 8:09 am

Karyuu: Where can we see the lyrics?

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Postby Dodic » Apr 6, 2003 8:31 am

Anonymous wrote:I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged.


How do you know plants have feelings?
Do vegetables and fruits try to avoid you when you pick them up from plants?
I don't think so... Do carrots and tomatos try to run when you cut them for salads? Hm...

Actualy vegetables and fruits are designed as food for animals. It's a way for plants to reproduce themsleves. Seeds in these fruits are not
digestable so they go out with feces which is a good fertiliser.

Did you ever thought why most ripe fruits have such bright colors and sweet aromas? I don't think that's because they want to hide from you.
I think it's quite oposite.

Another thing is eating seeds and nuts.
But you can compare seeds and nuts with sperm, usualy men waste a lot of it just for pleasure and only a very small amount is really used for reproduction. Usually the strongest sperm succedes thus is the nature of evolution the same is with plants. Only with plants human decide which seeds are good for reproduction and which can be used as food.

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Postby Karyuu » Apr 6, 2003 7:52 pm

I should've posted a link, m'sorry ;) Carrot Juice Is Murder

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Postby Dodic » Apr 7, 2003 6:54 am

Wow! Where can we listen it? ;)

This is cool:

I saw a man eating celery, so I beat him black and blue
If he ever touches a sprout again, I'll bite him clean in two
I'm a political prisoner, trapped in a windowless cage
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips by killing five men in a rage
I told the judge when he sentenced me, "This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again just to save one more cauliflower"

Chorus

How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!
Oh spare the spud! Eat a cow instead!

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Postby Karyuu » Apr 8, 2003 11:06 pm

Well, I have it on a cd, but you could download it with a peer-to-peer program, like Morpheus or KaZaA. ...*searches for a bit*... Actually, you can download it from here. Scroll down to the free mp3 downloads, and it's listed there :D By the Arrogant Worms, of course. They're such a humorous Canadian group.

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Postby Kelsk » Feb 25, 2004 1:23 pm

They don't have a brain or nervous system, thus can't feel pain as such nor can they have a sense of self-being. No more then a lump of mold anyway. They cannot feel sad or happy.

Well okay, they are alive and plants like all life forms need respect. But unlike animals they can't feel pain or suffering. So in light of this you shouldn't feel bad for eating them.

However, I do see where you are coming from with this. I hate having to eat planets and such too. However I have to if I wish to carry out my life.

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Please reconsider

Postby adam » Apr 22, 2004 7:47 pm

Anonymous wrote:I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.
Hi 'Anonymous,' It is very commendable of you for feeling so deeply, but we are human and on Earth this day, we are to live and learn, if we subsist on vegetables ...so be it, the best one can do. But if you should be in a position without food, one can survive by placing your fingertips together and exhale all breath, this is not recommended for usual 'meals' but in an emergency, ...if one trys to use daily it will not comletely suffice for nutritional needs. Don't forget to separate fingertips when need to inhale. Best of fortune, ak

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Postby adam » Apr 22, 2004 8:02 pm

Kelsk wrote:They don't have a brain or nervous system, thus can't feel pain as such nor can they have a sense of self-being. No more then a lump of mold anyway. They cannot feel sad or happy.

Well okay, they are alive and plants like all life forms need respect. But unlike animals they can't feel pain or suffering. So in light of this you shouldn't feel bad for eating them.

However, I do see where you are coming from with this. I hate having to eat planets and such too. However I have to if I wish to carry out my life.
Hi kelsk, Not to place too much worry about the feelings of plants...but wish to claim everything is alive, and should be respected for their value to all, I expect they feel and sense. But your understanding of our place on Earth is of merit, and sober, quite mature. Best of fortune, ak

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Postby cowpie » Sep 21, 2004 3:42 am

I think Guest #1 doth pulleth our leg. Maybe suicide will put him out of our misery :lol:

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Postby Alistar » Feb 20, 2005 11:38 am

Cowpie, why don't you help him you know how hard sometimes is to comit a suicide? :fart:

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plants have no feeling

Postby rshar538 » Apr 8, 2005 1:17 am

i read in my science book that they have no central nervous system which enables us to feel pain. So i guess plants have no feeling, we can eat them without feeling guilty.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby MuskokaVegetarian » Jul 28, 2010 3:56 pm

Being vegan does not mean being emo

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby meign » Sep 23, 2010 12:04 pm

I have heard the song... That song seemed to be so old... But somehow i can get what it is trying to say... :D
Are plants capable of regeneration? I think its ok with them if we eat them. :D

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby snog » Oct 28, 2010 10:19 am

MuskokaVegetarian wrote:Being vegan does not mean being emo




Lol! Agreed.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby meign » Nov 4, 2010 1:34 am

This topic seems to have a small cute funny conversation...

snog wrote:
MuskokaVegetarian wrote:Being vegan does not mean being emo




Lol! Agreed.
Is anyone becoming emo?

Alistar wrote:Cowpie, why don't you help him you know how hard sometimes is to comit a suicide? :fart:


Will it be called suicide if someone will be helping?

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby signlink » Nov 15, 2010 12:22 am

Plants have cell walls. (see thru the lines)

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby meign » Nov 15, 2010 5:32 am

You have a point there signlink ;)

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby CrystalMV » Nov 16, 2010 2:23 pm

There is nothing wrong with eating plants because humans wouldn't survive otherwise. There is no proof that they feel pain. Do plants form scabs because they want to? What about humans? Do they recover from injuries because they DECIDE to or because their body is designed in that way? Some people don't feel pain because of their genetics, but does that directly influence recovery processes? It doesn't seem like that to me.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby meign » Nov 19, 2010 2:24 am

If vegans will also stop eating plants because of environmental concern, then what will vegans eat for living?

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby Sewn » Nov 19, 2010 2:35 am

I would argue that plants are clearly different from animals.

At the same time, we share obvious similarities. We are both alive. We both endeavor to survive, thrive, and reproduce. We both respond to stimuli in our environments. We happen to share many of the same compounds in our bodies. To say we are "different" or "no different" depends on where you choose to draw the line.

How do you know plants have feelings?
Do vegetables and fruits try to avoid you when you pick them up from plants?


Let's turn those questions around.

How do you know plants don't have feelings? The first question you may want to ask is "Can I communicate with plants?" Can anyone? Not well, I imagine.

It's worth pointing out that we can't communicate effectively at all with many animals (like invertebrates and fish), yet many people will still try to afford some courtesy to them. Most considerate people I know wouldn't even swat a fly without a good reason. Or cut down a tree. Or pull up a flower bed.

As for plants not running away, well, do plants jump into your mouth? Do they chew themselves?

Plants do move, by the way. Most don't move very much. Only enough to reach sunlight or water and so slowly that many people wouldn't realize it unless you were paying attention. Instead of rapid movement, most plants have evolved toxins, poisons, barbs, tough skin, and other passive defenses to avoid or limit predation (gee, sounds like another Kingdom I know!). In turn, animals have evolved processes to neutralize toxins or safely bypass these defenses. Like a tough beak to break a shell. Or a stone mill to grind a seed (that's us, by the way).

Fruit seeds are actually quite digestible after you grind them up. Toxins and all.

Another thing is eating seeds and nuts.But you can compare seeds and nuts with sperm, usualy men waste a lot of it just for pleasure and only a very small amount is really used for reproduction.


Not a fair comparison, actually. Sperm is one thing. So is an unfertilized egg. Separately, neither of these can reproduce life (not as many of us are familiar with it, anyway). Seeds are closer to fertilized eggs. They contain everything necessary to begin growing into a new plant.

In animal terms, grinding up something like, say, a staff of wheat is a lot like murdering the mom with her baby. Food for thought.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Jan 16, 2011 3:08 pm

Lack of understanding does not equate to justification for eating plant matter.
Until we can say with 100% certainty that plants cannot feel pain (i.e: never) vegans cannot justifiably take the moral high ground.
Even if plants can't feel pain, like the poster above me said, they sure as heck don't want to be eaten (most of the time at least, some plants reproduce in very interesting ways!) so how can you say it's different enough from eating animals to justify.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby Jessica11 » Jan 17, 2011 3:41 am

But, can I get the same proteins my body needs without eating meat products?

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 7, 2011 4:25 pm

Sure, I mean if you wanted you could take pills all day and cut out the eating aspect all together!

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Re:

Postby philosopher » Mar 7, 2011 9:46 pm

Guest wrote:I'm so ashamed and confused. I don't want to eat animals, because they have feelings. So do plants, they form scabs when they are damaged. Most fruits and veggies that we eat come off of live plants. Some don't even get to feel the sun (they are in greenhouses) sounds like jail eh? I don't want to eat any veggies that are in fenced in areas or enclosed in fields or orchards. These are no better than feedlots. Where are the free range ones? I'm ashamed of being human, we take advantage of everything! Thanks to you, I can now take the step of killing my evil human self.


I applaud your attempt at impersonating a "guilty vegan". Lolz all around!

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby philosopher » Mar 7, 2011 9:50 pm

Jessica11 wrote:But, can I get the same proteins my body needs without eating meat products?


Yes you can. Most people in Europe and the States eat way too much protein. Too much protein contributes to kidney failure and osteoporosis.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby philosopher » Mar 7, 2011 9:54 pm

AdamD wrote:Lack of understanding does not equate to justification for eating plant matter.
Until we can say with 100% certainty that plants cannot feel pain (i.e: never) vegans cannot justifiably take the moral high ground.
Even if plants can't feel pain, like the poster above me said, they sure as heck don't want to be eaten (most of the time at least, some plants reproduce in very interesting ways!) so how can you say it's different enough from eating animals to justify.


Actually, even if plants feel pain, it is STILL preferable to eat a vegan diet of only plants. If you are really concerned about causing less harm than you would consider that for every pound of cow protein produced, at least 16 pound of vegetable protein is needed. So you are causing 16 times as much suffering by eating meat.

I also consider humans to be worth more than carrots, but that's just me.

There really is no sound argument for meat eating. You can try and try, but every argument in the book that meat eaters have ends up being illogical.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 9, 2011 2:10 pm

Philosopher, your above post proves your specism.
"I also consider humans to be worth more than carrots"

Please try and be less hypocritical in the future.

Sound argument for meat eating: I can and I like it.
Now you could do what you usually do and say: " You can also murder kittens or be a nazi", but I don't like that, so I don't.
Ouch, that logic may sting.

PS: I'm referring to another post you made in a different thread.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby dragonfly » Mar 9, 2011 7:34 pm

adam please go spew your :roll: semi-illiterate nonsense :roll: somewhere else, you don't belong here.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 10, 2011 4:14 am

Nice name calling, really showing the maturity there, I'm guessing that means you forfeit the argument to me then?

As for me not belonging here, I think you're just upset because your poorly chosen lifestyle is being questioned by someone and you can't defend yourself argumentatively. If you can't deal with that then I don't think you belong on any public forum.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby philosopher » Mar 11, 2011 3:58 am

AdamD wrote:Philosopher, your above post proves your specism.
"I also consider humans to be worth more than carrots"

Please try and be less hypocritical in the future.

Sound argument for meat eating: I can and I like it.
Now you could do what you usually do and say: " You can also murder kittens or be a nazi", but I don't like that, so I don't.
Ouch, that logic may sting.

PS: I'm referring to another post you made in a different thread.


Please Adam, provide me with your solid reasoning for eating meat. I love a challenge. I don't consider "I can and I like it." to be a good reason. It's a reason, not a good one.

I don't believe that saying humans are worth more than carrots makes me a speceist. Please tell me why I'm wrong.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 11, 2011 1:34 pm

Haha, so now you get to change the question, typical.

This is an exercise in futility, your concept of 'good' could be completely different to mine so there is very little point in me even trying.

But for the sake of meat worldwide:
Meat is a social acceptable and readily available source of essential nutrients which, although available elsewhere are still found in meat so it comes down to personal preference.

Meat eating is accepted and used widely in larger society so as to not inconvenience any of my friends cooking for me or any staff at various eateries I am happy eating meat.

I don't feel that the meat industry is deserving of all the hating even after watching the numerous vegan videos on this site so why NOT eat meat in my case?

By not eating meat and becoming a vegetarian or vegan I implicitly support eco-terrorist groups like PETA.

To begin with the next part of your post, let's define species.

Species: A taxonomic division that generally refers to a group of animals or plants which are similar in structure and descent and are able to breed among themselves.

Carrots fall under this definition ergo when you say "I also consider humans to be worth more than carrots" you are being speceist.
Not only that but you are being hypocritical considering that you were calling me a speceiest a short time ago.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby banana » Mar 14, 2011 6:40 am

DNA

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby philosopher » Mar 15, 2011 12:31 am

AdamD wrote:Haha, so now you get to change the question, typical.

This is an exercise in futility, your concept of 'good' could be completely different to mine so there is very little point in me even trying.

But for the sake of meat worldwide:
Meat is a social acceptable and readily available source of essential nutrients which, although available elsewhere are still found in meat so it comes down to personal preference.

Meat eating is accepted and used widely in larger society so as to not inconvenience any of my friends cooking for me or any staff at various eateries I am happy eating meat.

I don't feel that the meat industry is deserving of all the hating even after watching the numerous vegan videos on this site so why NOT eat meat in my case?

By not eating meat and becoming a vegetarian or vegan I implicitly support eco-terrorist groups like PETA.

To begin with the next part of your post, let's define species.

Species: A taxonomic division that generally refers to a group of animals or plants which are similar in structure and descent and are able to breed among themselves.

Carrots fall under this definition ergo when you say "I also consider humans to be worth more than carrots" you are being speceist.
Not only that but you are being hypocritical considering that you were calling me a speceiest a short time ago.


Meat is a decent source of few nutrients, and an expensive one. There are many many downsides of meat; environmental impact, health issues, cost, cruelty to animals in slaughtering and raising, etc. Vegetables won't give you heart attacks, are more environmentally friendly, and cause much less suffering than meat.

Most vegans and vegetarians I know enjoy making their own food. If they go over to a friends house for dinner they bring something, as to not "inconvenience" the host. I am more concerned about inconveniencing hundreds of farmed animals per year by eating them.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 17, 2011 10:27 am

"Most vegans and vegetarians I know enjoy making their own food. If they go over to a friends house for dinner they bring something, as to not "inconvenience" the host. I am more concerned about inconveniencing hundreds of farmed animals per year by eating them."

So your beliefs are more important than those of others?

That's practically what you're saying when you melt it down.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby dragonfly » Mar 17, 2011 7:06 pm

AdamD wrote:Nice name calling, really showing the maturity there, I'm guessing that means you forfeit the argument to me then?
logical fallacy, your "crossroads" logic is pointless, the disinformation/thick propaganda is quite silly and incorrect. more gradeschool shenanigans from the witless troll. adam you are apparently clueless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwNmolBr1w

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Mar 23, 2011 6:08 am

dragonfly wrote:
AdamD wrote:Nice name calling, really showing the maturity there, I'm guessing that means you forfeit the argument to me then?
logical fallacy, your "crossroads" logic is pointless, the disinformation/thick propaganda is quite silly and incorrect. more gradeschool shenanigans from the witless troll. adam you are apparently clueless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwNmolBr1w


Saying that I spread propaganda then linking a youtube video titled: "What would Jesus do?" made by an eco-terrorist organization. Classic.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby Dacite » Apr 22, 2011 7:38 pm

One can definitely eat fruits if there are concerns on plants.
Fruits get spoiled and rotten if nobody eats them, in fact they can seed only if somebody eats them leaving the seeds.
The fruit tree does not receive powers from it's fruits, the tree gets power from its roots.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Apr 23, 2011 8:35 am

Trees no longer want nor need humans to eat their fruit simply because people no longer spread the seeds within. Without meaning to sound crude, we don't crap in the bushes any more so we don't spread their seeds around ergo: Wasted fruit for the treeand a lost potential seed.

As for fruit rotting, often that is a natural and integral part of a plant seeding, the rotted fruit provides a rich patch of composted soil to give the seed a little head start.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby dragonfly » Apr 23, 2011 7:05 pm


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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Apr 25, 2011 11:47 pm

Both of your videos are factually incorrect on several points, if you cared to actually formulate an argument rather than spamming then I'd be happy to explain how but I bet you don't even bother to read replies to your spam.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby Kramer » Jun 24, 2011 4:18 am

Totally agree plants are no different than animals

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby merryvegan » Jun 24, 2011 5:39 pm

My sentiment is with Philosopher.

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby veggieboy19 » Jun 26, 2011 4:48 am

Why don't you all just stop eating plants and animals?

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby AdamD » Jul 3, 2011 7:16 am

You can do that if you want, but I'm more than happy to eat plants AND animals :flower:

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Re: Plants are no different than Animals

Postby alexandermller82 » Feb 24, 2012 3:50 am

Did you ever thought why most ripe fruits have such bright colors and sweet aromas? I don't think that's because they want to hide from you.

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Re: Plants Are No Different Than Animals

Postby Cupcake1208 » Nov 28, 2012 6:42 pm

This is an old thread, but I have a solution:

Eat salt. Just eat salt all day and nothing else.

XD LOL

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Re: Plants Are No Different Than Animals

Postby Cupcake1208 » Nov 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Also, why was Adam D even ON this forum???


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