Vegan Talk Forums

KrodoNash · Vegan Talk Beginner Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 5

Hey. *I'm having a very, very good discussion on free will and consciousness with some people on another forum, and this is the kind of stuff that we would talk about on this forum.

So I'll link to the discussion. *Any comments, etc. just post here and we can talk about it on this forum.

http://www.gamingw.net/forums/index.php?act=STandamp;f=2andamp;t=20968andamp;

(WARNING: make sure you have HOURS on hand before reading this

)

(Edited by ProbePhage at 10:21 pm on April 23, 2003)

WarChild · Passionated Vegan Talker Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 193

The link is invalid, I'm being redirected to the main forum page.

Trisha · Posted: Jun 1, 2007 7:17 am Post subject:

Doesn't the fact that Angroth from that website decided to write all of that prove that he has some amount of free-will?

Unless he was told to do it. In which case he still has creative freedom in how to word it which boils down to style and grammar he learned at a young age (or through formal education, if english isn't his first language).

... but he did say he doesn't know why he thought of it. While I'm sure that statement is an understatement, it does illustrate, to a point, that he had enough free-will to start writing it.

These "philosophers" need to get their definitions straight. But I can't stay they're the only ones guilty of it.

Angroth later states that everything we do is based on emotions which are fickle and erratic. Wouldn't that go against his previous thesis that there is no such thing as free-will???

... Here I thought all along that everything we do is based upon chemical signals and processes in our bodies. Which are consistent from context to context, if you are a healthy generic carbon unit like me

gregorton · Vegan Talk Beginner Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 4

Its odd but under hypnosis somone can be told to do something upon waking like crawling around the floor for instance. Now when that person wakes they will tell you why they are about to do what they are about to do, like andquot; Oh, what an interesting floor cover, I was thinking about going into the carpet business myself, let me just have a look at this hereandquot; andnbsp;and down they gaet and crawl around. Now to them they have acted out of their own free will, but seen from our viewpoint thats not the case, maybe we have a deeper part of our conciousness which controls our descicions and we only make up excuses for why we dcided upon that particular course of action. Free will is a wierd thing, i don't think it will ever be solved.

BigBecka · Animal defender Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 414

AndyBa · Lord of the posts Joined: 27 May 2001 Posts: 670

Trisha · Posted: Jun 5, 2007 7:11 am Post subject:

Paul, that sounds incredibly fascinating.

Anywhere that I can dig into it?

- Josh

gregorton · Vegan Talk Beginner Joined: 12 May 2006 Posts: 4

There is a little bit on it in an interesting book by John Searle called andquot;Minds, brains and scienceandquot; but apart from that its just experience.

BigBecka · Animal defender Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 414

WarChild · Passionated Vegan Talker Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 193

kobus · Vegan Talk Beginner Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 3

Free will... it really is a good one.

Paul,

Is that 'deeper part of our conscioussness' contolled by us, or by something else apart from the individual?

BigBecka · Animal defender Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 414

WarChild · Passionated Vegan Talker Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 193

bratt2z · Vegan Talk Visitor Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 9

Well, i dont really feel like reading all that, but if i had to say something about free will, i would say that there is no such thing. andnbsp;What we, as humans, define as andquot;free willandquot; is really just chemical responses and stuff programmed into us. andnbsp;We, as humans, have been chemically programmed to believe that we have some sort of control over what we do. andnbsp;I read somewhere ( i forget where) that there is a second consciousness controlling your mind. andnbsp;its like the wizard of oz saying andquot;pay no attention to the man behind the curtainandquot; and actually believing it.

BigBecka · Animal defender Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 414

bennybcn · Vegan Talk Visitor Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 8

This philosophy to me sounds a lot like Descatres. This isn't origional. But then again, Descatres had to remind himself that he existed. He's the one that said 'I think, therefore I am'. A very stange and confused man.

Trisha · Posted: Jun 13, 2007 6:46 am Post subject:

So we have limited free-will?

If those Enlightenment Period philosophes were correct, then we were born with a clean slate. But we have no knowledge, at birth, to act upon so there really is no will except survival instincts of... suck and go to the bathroom... and sleep.

But as we get older we are influenced by language and our personal observed histories. Then we can act upon our knowledge for whatever purpose we desire.

But then you can point out the physical laws that define us and prevent us from doing pretty insane things. There was that whole debate over language how we're all just a continuation of our predecessor's words.

... But we can still make some choices. We can change our minds again and again. We can do totally irrelevant things or attempt the most profound. Again, whatever.

:-D

I don't feel you can reasonably deny having at least /some/ free will in your life. The question is not a matter of how much. The question is a matter of how to get around those limitations.

*wink wink*

BigBecka · Animal defender Joined: 02 Dec 2006 Posts: 414

bennybcn · Vegan Talk Visitor Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 8

Dude, if you want to believe what the enlightenment philosophers had to say, then go for it. I personaly believe that they're crack heads. I was just pointing out that the particular philosophy is not origional. But free will is what makes us human. Every other animal acts on instincts. And I agree with you.